Risk & Resolve
The Risk & Resolve Podcast is your go-to resource for insightful conversations at the intersection of leadership, business ownership, and the insurance industry. Hosted by Ben Conner and Todd Hufford, this podcast dives deep into the challenges and opportunities that leaders face in an ever-changing world.
Each episode features candid discussions with business owners, industry experts, and thought leaders, exploring topics like innovation, risk management, and the strategies that drive success. Whether you’re an entrepreneur, executive, or insurance professional, you’ll gain actionable insights and inspiration to navigate today’s complex business landscape.
Tune in to Risk & Resolve—where leadership meets resilience.
Risk & Resolve
From Pastor to Entrepreneur: Adam Weber's Journey
Adam Weber shares his journey from pastor to entrepreneur to executive coach, demonstrating how personal insecurities and desire for meaningful work drove his transformation through multiple successful businesses.
• Building BlueRidge and Amplify through multiple pivots while growing to millions in recurring revenue
• Identifying the common growth barrier businesses hit at 35-50 employees when founder-centric culture breaks down
• Creating space for leaders to realize they have more choices than they think they do
• Understanding how board members and investors have less context than you as the business leader
• Recognizing that loneliness and decision paralysis are common challenges for executives
• Transitioning from a sales identity to finding authentic leadership style
• Helping leaders maintain high performance standards while remaining true to themselves
If you're interested in learning more about Adam's coaching practice or connecting with him, you can find him through his website or reach out directly through LinkedIn.
You're listening to Risk and Resolve, and now for your hosts, ben Conner and Todd Hufford. Welcome back to another episode of Risk and Resolve with your co-host, ben and Todd. Today we have our special guest, Adam Weber, executive coach, recently launched his business. We're thrilled to have Adam here, and Adam has quite the journey that I'm excited to explore, starting as a pastor, co-founding Blue Bridge and successfully pivoting to Amplify, which I thought was incredible. Wrote Lead Like a Human, a well regarded leadership book, and then was part of the acquisition from Amplify to 15.5. Adam, thanks for being here.
Speaker 2:Good to be here, ben. Thanks for having me, todd, good to be here, and I guess the listeners don't know that Ben and I have actually known each other for a long time, back when, that's, you just shared a long career. But that's just because I'm old, I think, and so I've just done a lot of things, that I've had a lot of time See.
Speaker 1:I was going to say you've accomplished a lot in a short period of time oh, okay. One of the positive spin. Yeah, and I think that's true. Well, tell us about you know, after the acquisition in 15-5, now you've launched your coaching practice. Tell us a little bit about that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that was in September, so it's pretty, you know, pretty recently. But in a lot of ways to me and being a coach is something I've known, I've wanted to do for a long time it's just work that sometimes takes time to get to. In the middle of my journey at Amplify was an employee engagement measurement company, and so we measured cultures, and then we coached executives on how to build high performance teams company, and so we measured cultures and then we coached executives on how to build high performance teams. We helped them figure out what was creating these blockers at scale in their culture, and a lot of times what we uncovered was that it was the leader themselves or as someone on the executive team, and the reason why is, just like all of us, when you're in a high stress environment where you're facing something you've never faced, all of these childhood insecurities come out, all these unresolved parts of your own personality come out, and you end up creating environment where you're facing something you've never faced. All these childhood insecurities come out, all these unresolved parts of your own personality come out, and you end up creating something that you never really wanted to create, and so I've always, deep in my bones, wanted to be a person that was like work for me was like more in service for others, and so, even having a startup, the whole time I was like man. I really hope I can get to a spot where I can coach and just be in service to other people.
Speaker 2:And so actually, once Amplify got acquired, I started coaching on the side for four years.
Speaker 2:The whole time I was at 15.5, I had a little side coaching practice two to three CEOs at a time and really, I think, learned how to. I mean, I'm still learning like who I am as a coach and what makes me unique. I'm still learning like who I am as a coach and what makes me unique. But one thing I feel like I've been my whole life is just a person that's good with other human beings, good at listening, good at hearing people's stories and good at like maybe giving them some level of like confidence that they could be, like, that they can do the thing that deep down they want. And so, yeah, that's what I do now. I just I sit with leaders and sit with them in their most stress-filled, vulnerable moments or when they've hit a roadblock in their growth, and they just they feel like they've tried everything and nothing's working and kind of help them think about what paths and options there really are and give them the belief that there's more choice than they realize.
Speaker 1:It's awesome Because that's interesting about a leader of any business. We all have limitations or if blind spots or otherwise, so working through those is pretty important. Clearly, what have you learned in, I guess I should say, since September but this is more of a four-year overnight success, right your coaching practice. What has been some of the things that have really stuck out to you as you've launched into this journey?
Speaker 2:That's a good question. What have I learned from coaching so far? Like, is it six months in of like full-time coaching? I'll say one of the cool things that I had I had three different coaches during my, like you know, I did 12 years of startups and had three different coaches, and one of the things I always loved about them that I was always jealous about was the situational experience. Like you know, you are at one company and you're in that company, right, and I work with 14 clients, and so I get to see patterns and trends and I hear a story and I'm like I just heard this from a different person and you start to connect dots that are different.
Speaker 2:I always find it really fascinating when you're like talking to someone in manufacturing and then you're talking with someone in venture-backed tech and you hear the same thing and you start to realize, like how similar a lot of like growth leadership challenges are.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, like if I were to be super specific with one of the things I've noticed is like an interesting thing I've observed is how a lot of companies hit a roadblock in growth right around 35 to 50 employees. Like that's an interesting thing, where the founders have built this culture really around their personality and around tribal knowledge, and this can also happen around 15 employees. It's not always, it's not like a defined set number, it's just like early, all the employees kind of know what to do because they're in the orbit of the leaders, but then as the company grows, you get less access to the leaders and then that kind of creates this chaotic, wild West environment for the employees, but for the leader it creates this like. This doesn't look like me anymore. This doesn't match what I had in my mind, and so helping them then create that culture that they dreamed of, that they like dreamed of, that they actually wanted to be true, is one of the things that I think kind of stands out a little bit too.
Speaker 3:Yeah, adam, I'm sure a lot of leaders and CEOs hear about you through social media and probably a referral. But when you first get that call, when you talk to them for the first time, is there something a lot of them say, that is, you're talking about those consistencies across different categories. Is there something that they're all saying in that first call?
Speaker 2:The actual like area that might bring them to me might look different, but the one thing that's pretty true with coaching in general is if you believe you can totally do it on your own, then I'll never hear from you, right, you don't need a coach. And so usually it's like there's a moment, there's a moment of awareness. That happens whether it's like you exhibited a behavior you're not proud of. You're in a situation the most common thing is you're in a situation where, like if you're in a high growth business or a growing business, businesses grow like this, but human beings grow like that, and so you can kind of feel sometimes yourself where you're like all right for this thing to become the best version that I know it's capable of. I myself have to keep up with the growth of the business, and so that's a pretty common thing is like so how do I just have a thought partner? I mean, the other is just how like lonely.
Speaker 2:I had a CEO text me like an hour ago about not even one of my clients. He's just like I'm sure you get this all the time. He's like this is such a lonely job. I've got to like appease the board. I've got to appease the executive team, I've got to make the employees happy, I'm worried about the customers and it's like input, input and everybody's like putting pressure from all these directions. I do think there's like a loneliness to it. I also think sometimes, because of all those different, those four directions board, exec, team, employees and customers that at times it can kind of make your brain turn to mush, like you almost get paralysis by analysis, like, well, I need to adjust for this person and this person. And so I do think a lot of people come with that.
Speaker 2:And one of the great things about coaching isn't that you have the answers, it's that you create the container that reverses that pressure. Right, instead of creating the pressure, you release the pressure by creating that environment where they can really explore. Well, those are all great inputs, right, but ultimately, like you're the one who decides. And so let's talk it out Like, how do you think about this? What's a thing you know? Let's play out the worst case scenario. Let's play out the best case scenario. And my favorite question right now is like if you had 10 times the agency that you think you have, what would you do? And then it's just interesting how they're just like oh, if I could do anything, I'd do this. And then it's like, well, can you do anything? Like what is holding you back from doing anything? And like.
Speaker 3:Those are some of the examples. Are the venture capitalists who are kind of early stage in a lot of these companies and some of these CEOs careers? Are they allocating dollars earlier than normal to get coaching to their leadership.
Speaker 2:It kind of depends on the funds. Some funds, I think, are really like coaching forward, you know where they do and they'll even have like partnerships with coaches. That's what it was. I'm like building this practice for myself, like I'm hoping there's a couple of funds that I'm guessing. The way it's going to happen for me is like some of my clients are in funds and then they tell the fund, versus me going to the fund and trying to convince them.
Speaker 2:Like there's so many people that say they're coaches and what I've always found is like even selling coaching in general, it's not a thing like what I always do. I just, oh, I'm like, can we just do a session? Can you just sit it? Can you sit in the container that I create for you and just see if it lands for you? And I'll see if it lands for me, like, and let's not, I'm not gonna try to sit and tell, see if it lands for you and I'll see if it lands for me. Like, let's not, I'm not gonna try to sit and tell you what it is, I'd rather you just experience it and see if it could create some change in your life. To test drive, test drive yeah, we'll test a test run.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So I'm curious, now that you're in the coach seat what would you have told yourself of like 15 years ago, when you were like beginning your journey with Bluebridge and Amplify?
Speaker 2:Oh man, what a great question Like. If I'm super honest with myself about the very beginning of my journey, it really started for me out of a lot of personal insecurity. I would say like that I had two deep insecurities. One was financial insecurity is like probably why I became an entrepreneur, and I was like I had this deep fear that I was going to be like in poverty. Even long after I needed to still feel that I was just like, well, if I don't succeed, we're going to lose our house, we're going to you know, I would just like kind of create these narratives in my head. We misquoted Well, this thing's going to happen in this thing. And so I think one is was that was like a deep insecurity. And I think the other was like before I became an entrepreneur.
Speaker 2:My first 10 years were like I kind of bounced around for like 10 years of my career and kind of like entry level. I mean it was eclectic, like I was a pastor and an academic advisor and I got into entry level sales and so early on in my leadership I had this desperation that I genuinely felt like I had something bigger inside of me than had currently been activated, and those two things together at their lowest moments, created a level of selfish intensity that maybe wasn't quite as like others, focused as like the best version of myself and sometimes I think I maybe didn't make the very best, like wisest decisions because I had such a short term survival perspective. Those might be some of it. You know, it's interesting because I'm also like pretty charitable, like I think as an entrepreneur you're like creating something out of nothing and it does take a level of intensity Like I don't want to pretend like you can just like lifestyle your way to like a venture-backed high growth startup. Like I was all in max effort every single day.
Speaker 2:I remember I used to say this phrase. It was like work harder than you think you can for longer than you thought you could, and that was like what it felt like for 10 years, you know, and I'm proud of it, and I'm proud that sometimes those insecurities actually but then they also got to a spot where they weren't helpful anymore either you know where they started to kind of like get in the way of my own growth and my own limitations. Ben, good question. You're a new podcast host, come on Like a couple of times.
Speaker 1:you're in there, right?
Speaker 2:That's a real question right there.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, I mean, you're coaching and you were an entrepreneur, so I just kind of thought, hammer met nail on that one. Tell us about that initial launch with Bluebridge, and especially in light of what you just shared of like bouncing around for 10 years and as with Santi and what happened.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So just a little bit of context is that, yes, I had bounced around for kind of 10 years but in the last year I started selling websites for this like small business, and I like I was like I'm going to figure this out and I like crack the code on sales and I like figured out, I was like finally doing well, I guess this is the first good year like financially I'd ever had. And so I was finally in a spot where I was like, oh, I'm like I got something going for me and so the reason I share it to risk is like my boys were three and four years old, I'd finally done something to kind of get my wife's an architect and has done really well and I'm really proud of her and she's like she had really been you know, really three and four-year-old boys that I met. You know my business partner was a senior in college and I wrote this blog about a $100,000 website I closed. When I first got to this company, I closed a $3,000 website. My websites were $3,000. Closed a $100,000 website, write the first blog of my life. And Santiago, my business partner at the time, read it in college and sent me a cold DM on Twitter. It was just like can I buy a cup of coffee? I want to learn sales from you. So, yeah, biggest risk of my life was 30 days later.
Speaker 2:We're sitting back at that Starbucks when I heard his idea this is still early in the iPhone days and he's talking about mobile apps instead of websites and he said they're going dude, you're going to be selling phone books if you don't do it. Like, websites are the phone book of you know. And I'm like and he already had one customer too and I was like I don't need much to work with you. Give me one customer, a cool idea, and also someone with a ton of energy and enthusiasm for the work. And so, yeah, the moment that I like always remember is he like pitched it to me and I was like you got to talk to my wife, which is like I'm never in business.
Speaker 2:If I ever met somebody's spouse since then or before. He's like at our house. He's 21 years old, got a laptop up in our family room. Our kids are just like going crazy because they're young and loud and play with fire trucks. He's like profusely swept while he's showing this financial model. That's like we're going to make this work. And then my wife is like, so does he? Do you, will he have insurance? And Santi just straight up lied, he just goes, yes, and then he's like I got home and Googled how to get insurance.
Speaker 2:Interestingly enough, when he walked out, my wife was like, if you don't do this, you're going to regret it for the rest of your life. And like it was, I feel actually a little choked up because, like it genuinely did change my whole life. You know like and what that unlocked for me and my family. And then it wasn't just saying yes, it was also all the hard work that came in the next decade to earn that. You know, like we worked really hard for what we created. But that moment took a. I took a leap. You know, I took a pretty big leap in that moment and that's pretty cool how it turned out.
Speaker 1:What do you think your wife saw?
Speaker 2:I think he and I still I mean still to this day we have a kindred and drive about us that is hard to explain, like as if we'd known each other for a long time and kind of like also like we're definitely going to make this work, no matter what Like. And I think I think she saw that. I think she probably also just saw that like she like I think she just genuinely like believed in me, that thing. I think I told myself, or I was like I know I could do something. I've got something inside of me, and I think she just like believed that too. And he was a great person to also like invest in. You know, in some ways it's like put your poker chips on this guy too. Like he's it wasn't just me, it's like he's an impressive person and I think that's really important that you partner with someone else who's also really talented and you believe in and can do stuff too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, cause I just think about that dynamic. I mean, he's in college, you're crushing it, starting to close some big deals and kids run around the table, so there's a lot of noise there. That might've been like maybe this is too much of a risk at this juncture in life.
Speaker 2:But it worked out. It was a huge. It was a big risk. Funny enough is that my wife then the next year started her own business too. Then, once we got in, we both also were kind of like I don't know for people that work for other people.
Speaker 1:I just kind of had that realization.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was going to say you two might be two really good examples of that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we're quite unemployable. Yeah, Exactly. Might be two really good examples of that where it's quite unemployable. Yeah, exactly so Adam put that movie on. You know two or three X speed. That was day one. Give us some highlights of headcount revenue. The transition to you know kind of product and brand, because you said it was a 12 year run.
Speaker 2:Yeah, if you include all three stops, but they're all kind of similar. So yeah, Blue Bridge was probably four years. We kind of built two businesses at the same time. We sold to churches like a mobile app that was like a way to watch sermons and engage with the calendar and send push notifications. We also sold to cities, so like you would go to Miami, Florida, and when you got there you download the app of the city, or Indianapolis had it, or you know like, and it was like a restaurant directory account or that sort of thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, we thought it was like the same product. It's a really similar product, but it's a totally different market. So our price was different. So we basically had to split our team in two. But that company grew pretty fast. Our first goal, our goal our first year, was to have 32 customers and by the end of the first year we had 105. And so, I don't know, we probably had 20, 30 employees after 18 months and then by the end maybe we're up to about 50 employees.
Speaker 2:And then when what basically happened was we really wanted to build a huge business, like we both had this drive about us. We were like we could really build like the biggest, and we just kind of picked two smaller markets and our product just wasn't quite a home run. And so we got into this employee engagement space. The fast forwarded version is some version of like our own natural, like we're starting to I mean, he's an executive coach today too we're starting to realize we didn't just start a business to start a business Like what's our work to do in the world. And so the first version of Amplify was like we took that same product and started selling it to companies like birthday announcements, and this is before Slack. So at the time we thought it was a pretty good idea, but really we called it employee engagement, but it wasn't solving anything for people. It was just sending out announcements. And so what? We realized we're like, well, what if we really could solve this for people? And so we built that measurement platform and started coaching leaders. And that really took off. Like each time we kind of started and stopped.
Speaker 2:The first two we got to like a million in recurring revenue on each of those two products in probably like two and a half years. App we got there in like 14 months. The fourth time we got there in like nine months. You know like we got. We went zero to a million in nine months and then hit like double, double back to back. We were on a really fast growth trajectory with Amplify for quite some time. We got up to about 75 employees. And then you know it's just interesting like how you have these tech companies. You think it's, you know, keep going, but it's like pandemic hits the market, totally consolidated on us all at the same time. At this point we've like changed ideas four times. We're both totally out of gas too, which is a unique dynamic. To like having a sustainable business is like the founders have to still have energy for it. Yeah, and we just ran out of energy.
Speaker 2:We just ran out, like we both just we were out. We kind of lucked out. One of our clients 15Fives had loved our product and the year before they called us and told us they were going to build a competitive product. Which is like the classiest CEO ever to me. He's like we love your product, but this is what we're seeing in the market. We're going to have to compete with you. He's like like, unless you want to sell right now, and at that time we're just like no, we're gonna be bigger than you. And you know all this. And we tried and they tried and they tried to build our product. You know they realized how hard it was and so then we all kind of came back in a more humble place and merged what was the time frame between the, the first pounding your that's a good question and then because before the pandemic, so it's probably like 18 months and was there a legal change of the entity between blue bridge and amplify, or was it just the same business with we basically sold the technology.
Speaker 2:On the same day, we sold the tourism technology to a tourism software company and we sold the church technology to the church software oh, so you had no product, you went, you went to zero. Yes, we started over, but we kept our employees, so we basically had a brand new startup with like 50 employees, I mean, which was you know. It's interesting. The thing is we had our sales and marketing engine just like humming at the time and we're like I think we can get this thing going pretty fast, but it was.
Speaker 3:It's certainly an interesting way to do it so what percentage of the proceeds from those sales did you pour right back into business?
Speaker 2:We put those right back in. That was a yeah, it reinvest yeah. So it was the same entity, though, basically.
Speaker 3:We just like yeah, Interesting.
Speaker 1:That's a huge risk and I think Indianapolis is a small market and so I just vividly remember hearing about Bluebridge going to Amplify and explaining like what you were doing. I was like that's a totally different business.
Speaker 2:Right. Yeah, there's pros and cons too. You know it's like if I could do it over again, I guess you know I'd probably pick a good idea from day one and or just pick a fine idea and stick with it the whole time. So, but like that wasn't our journey. The reality when you're an entrepreneur is you only know what you know in that moment. Like I don't have that right now. I have a lot more experience than I had then, and you know the downside of that too is you have to.
Speaker 2:Just you're constantly starting over. You never get the benefit of software as a service, like our world was all recurring revenue, but it's like every time you start over you got to start from zero and you don't get that compounding effect over time as well. So there's pros and cons. I mean the end of the day. The cool thing is it got us into this like work that we both really love and a product that really was like it wasn't a perfect story. We're like we're going to figure out something that lands for us and lands to the market and we can kind of like really give our all at it too yeah, heck of a journey, too, right, yeah yes, oh, so fun.
Speaker 2:It was fun, I do. It's the most stressful memories at times, yeah, and the most, like you know, they're just some aspects. Some of the people, like my original sales team I still have a text thread with all of them that we call it the boom threads. We always used to say boom when deals are, and now, when life events happen, or when some of them are still in sales to this day, when they close big deals, they tax and it's just like you know, you just build these bonds in that environment that just lasts like such a long time that's awesome.
Speaker 3:Did you guys take private private equity or take money in to grow?
Speaker 2:we did. Yeah, yeah, quite a bit along the way too. Yeah, and was that?
Speaker 3:I guess early stage, even through the transition into Amplify.
Speaker 2:Yep At Bluebridge. Kind of early on we had like a lot of the exact target folks were like early investors and Bill Godfrey was just like an incredible guy and like an amazing investor for us he's my former boss.
Speaker 3:Oh, are you serious? Yeah, I was at a primo for a hot nine months.
Speaker 2:You need to get Bill Godfrey on this podcast. You can use this clip right now. He is an incredible guy and such a wealth of knowledge. I mean it is nice to have people who've been there and done that along the way too.
Speaker 3:I'd say what lessons did you learn through that working with private equity and investors, that now, as a coach to CEOs who maybe have already taken on money, or looking to, I mean, you've got some experience. What are you coaching your?
Speaker 2:your. I think one thing I didn't have context of at the time is that investors and board members have a lot less context than you do, like they don't sit, and I've been on boards now since then myself and it's very fun to go in and like technically say the right, do Like they don't sit, and I've been on boards now since then myself and it's very fun to go in and like technically say the right thing, like have you thought about this, have you done this? And then you leave and then it's off your mind. You know, all right, cool, now you guys go execute.
Speaker 2:But it's really hard your first time to really understand how much unique context you have about your unique situation. Like, yes, there's things that are timelessly true and yes, there's wisdom and all that. But end of the day, like when you get a chance to be in the seat, take the seat, it's your seat, it's not anybody else's. And so I think one of the things I think I tell people is just like, take their input, but it is not a directive. Like, at the end of the day, like you should, you should stand up for what you know and what you believe and ultimately, like you, could you see this over and over with board members and investors.
Speaker 2:And you also see it with, like, when you hire somebody from a big logo and you're like you're this entrepreneur, you have all this like inferior, you don't believe in yourself, you don't believe in yourself. And then you hire somebody from Salesforce and they come over and you're like, oh, they're going to solve all my problems. They don't know anything. They probably make big problems. Yeah, it's not that they aren't talented, it's that you often devalue your own knowledge and like you know a lot more than you think you do. And so, like trust yourself, weigh out other opinions, but ultimately like trust yourself. I think is like one of the things that I learned.
Speaker 1:Back to like Bluebridge Amplify. Who are some of your guys' coaches along that journey?
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, my first coach was Brian Kavicki, who's a sales coach. That guy like changed my whole life because he like gave me the tool set of sales. And he's much more than that. You know, he really is a great like. He's just a great person to be with. He's just really thoughtful and and helped me, um, just build something that he gave me. That I would say by the time I was done working with him, I was confident I could do. I could have any business like, cause I knew how to make money and like generate revenue and things like that. So that's, that was my first one. Then a couple others along the way is Chip Knighty, kairos Consult consulting. They're an Indianapolis company too, and he was like a great. He was a coach of Santi and eyes and his company was, and so what's cool?
Speaker 2:Now chip coach me for like two or three years and a lot of what I learned about coaching was like through that relationship and we're friends now. You know, it's kind of it's interesting to kind of transition from like we're getting dinner, this I think it's this weekend, this weekend or next week. It's like, you know, we like hang out now as friends with our, our wives and things like that. And then there's a company called reboot. It's like an organization, a coaching organization for founders, and they were really transformative and my like. The part I didn't share for me was that, as amplify started to grow and hit some scale, like I always thought I was, like I had this story. I told myself that I was like a sales guy and the board and and kind of the stage of growth where we're all kind of like, hey, we, we think we should bring in a seasoned salesperson, and then you start you know you're one of the founders of this company Like what is the way you can most impact this business? Like and that was really disorienting for me because I thought I was going to spend my whole career leading sales. But man, when I look back on like the thing that probably unlocked my work to do in my life, it was actually and that was actually a pretty painful situation at the time for me, but it kind of unlocked my own understanding of who I am.
Speaker 2:When I released myself from how tightly I thought I was like a salesperson and I started to think about like well, what is work I love?
Speaker 2:Like what is work that I'm uniquely qualified for and uniquely gifted at and I started to explore that and that is ultimately what led me to I turned into the chief people officer at Amplify and then I started doing a lot of like that's when I wrote the book, too, was during that time, and that book really opened up a lot of doors as far as, like it wasn't about sales, it was about the unique way that I was leading the team and then how that's actually a really scalable concept and my own growth journey.
Speaker 2:And then how could I share that and give that to other people too, so they can lead in ways that are more authentic to themselves? So often you have a bad manager and then they're really tough on you in their car and then you become a manager and you start acting that same way which is how I was when I first became a manager and like the spirit of what I'm after is like what if, in knowing yourself better, you actually then can lead others better too. You can show up as that calm, centered presence and you can really like impact and influence people and like just creating a different path for others that show gives them almost permission. Like hey, there's a different path for others that gives them almost permission, like, hey, there's a different way to lead. I still, I'm all about performance, I'm all about expectations and clarity and setting a high bar, all those things. But you can do all that stuff and still be like a genuinely good person, like authentic to yourself too.
Speaker 1:So how did you, being chief people officer, like really HR related, coming from a sales identity it's not even a background. You had a sales identity. Talk about that transition and what were some like things that you stepped in. You're like, well, why do we do things like that or this?
Speaker 2:is strange. I was really lucky, like early on a couple of things, like one, todd Richardson, who's the now he's the like COO of IU. He was at Amplify with us too and like when I made this transition he was like don't learn traditional HR Like the world doesn't need from you. Traditional HR, hr needs you. And there was this confidence of someone who has so much respect and pedigree in that space. He like genuinely meant it when he said it, that he was like lean into this thing and like find your voice in this, because I actually think your voice and the way you're doing this is something others need. And so that was part of like all right, I'm going to do that.
Speaker 2:But I will say the way I used to describe it is like I felt like a kid in clown shoes for a lot. For the first, like just fumbling around, trying to like I'm trying things. But I also was like I'm going to try to be as innovative as possible and share it publicly. And I kind of that was like the rhythm I got in, which was like try to do things like there's no rules, like you're going to make the rules. So like what's the coolest thing you ever wanted a culture to be like Like what's the coolest thing you ever wanted. A culture to be like Like what's the thing you wanted?
Speaker 2:Like one summer, I was like you know, we're not working Fridays in the summer, but what's so cool about it is we like figured out a way to drive performance by aligning people's schedules and like really getting people focused, getting rid of wasted meetings, driving up the pace of the company, but also doing something pretty innovative too, and we leverage data to make that decision. So then, like I'll share, like I'll share. Well, how did I get that, you know? And so that's really what kind of started the snowball of the new chapter, I guess, if you will, I'm trying to imagine being on your team at a performance review with you as my chief people officer.
Speaker 3:You're probably coming in with a 15 page slide deck. It's like a proposal. You're working me through the sales process. You know we're going to get here. Sign right here If we get this done by Friday and I'm like I already work here.
Speaker 2:Hold on. Yeah, I will say one thing that made the transition like interesting and is that I sold to HR people for years, you know, and so and they all were people that were on the leading edge.
Speaker 2:We were signing early adopters. We're like a new tech company with an innovative idea, so it's all the most innovative, like the guy who bought 15.5, one of those founders. He was one of the most progressive HR leaders I've ever met. I became friends with him during the sales process, you know, and so when you're good at sales, you're learning and you're asking questions, and so you know, I felt like I knew that industry like backwards and forwards, because I had had thousands of conversations three a day, every single day for four years with some of the best progressive HR leaders. Like I'm not saying I know as much as them, but I know a lot about this one topic that I've been having three hours of conversations a day about.
Speaker 3:Wow. So when you think about your coaching, what's the span of control? How many clients can you have before you're really not able to give what you really need to give to each person?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a great question. I think in some ways I'm still figuring that out. Here's what I know is true is like well, actually been like one of our shared friends. So, josh Cooper, you know, josh, right, josh Cooper, my friend Josh, is best man at my wedding.
Speaker 2:He's a pastor today and he said this thing to me that really like struck me as like what I try to apply to coaching, and he's like I want to make sure I live my life at a pace that other people don't feel hurried when they're with me, and so, as a coach, I really feel that like the gift that I give to these founders and and is that like yeah, I'm not in that same race and so I really don't want to get my schedule to a spot where I am also just as busy as they are and kind of in that same race, because I want them to get to me and feel a sense of rest.
Speaker 2:So I don't know, I'm playing around with that right now, 14 feels pretty close, like it's not, you know, I mean I mean every other week, so it's not like overly intensive and but also it's not, you know, I meet, I meet every other week, so it's not like overly intensive, and but also it's like your mind, like it's not just about the time you're with them, it's that you're thinking about them when you're not with them a little. And so you, you know, there's kind of a line to how many people you can think about and remember the characters and things like that. But somewhere in this like 14 to 20 range is kind of like probably about the max for me.
Speaker 3:So how far along are you on cloning yourself so you can serve more people?
Speaker 2:That is a great. That's a great question. There's one part of me that is like oh man, like building a business. You should build a business of value, right, like, and how do you build value? It has to be about more than you. That's like one version. Where I am today, though, is is I'm like I actually am just kind of like I kind of just want to do this myself, like I just am enjoying. I enjoy actually coaching, and there's a simplicity to like just coaching myself, you know and so, but I don't know that's. We already just talked about all the changes in 14 years, so, like I don't know what's gonna happen, but that's I'm trying to build something that's really scalable, or not scalable, but is sustainable in my own life, and then what I really want to hone in on is just like who am I as a coach? Who do I know I can really create meaningful change and get really confident in that, and then figure out ways to have more and more of that?
Speaker 1:Well, I know we could probably go on for another hour. So fun. Your story is fascinating and I appreciate the enthusiasm and courage that you have in your daily work, consistently over a long period of time. It's super encouraging. But we talked about the two questions that we're going to ask. You alluded to one of them, so you're going to have to choose which risk. You've taken a few, but what is the risk that you have taken that has really changed your life?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that I'm going to use the answer, the one the Blue Bridge, kind of starting Blue Bridge risk, I think, was the big change that really set in motion the big change in my life ocean, the big change in my life.
Speaker 1:You know also I didn't mention this earlier, but santi, his statement about web pages being the phone book, that that's a cold-blooded sales right there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it is he, yeah it worked, especially because there was a period where my dad sold phone books, so it really that was it.
Speaker 1:that was certainly a sniper move, it was. I like that.
Speaker 3:Second, and final question what?
Speaker 2:is yet unfinished, that you have the resolve to complete. What I'm resolved to is my own growth journey myself and like being willing to face all the things in my life that I need to face to become the best version of who I am, and my hope is that in doing that, then it's like in service to other people too, right that I can then create the space for others. And that is a hard task, like it's hard. It's hard to face yourself, you know, and it's hard to be willing to look at the aspects of you that still need to grow. But I do think that's one thing like I am resolved to, and I'd love to say it's a switch and you just get like, but it's a journey, but it's one that I'm pretty like, committed to, like this deepening my own self-awareness and then being generous with how I give that away.
Speaker 1:I love that you're resolved to face hard things. It's awesome. Well, Adam, thanks for joining us today and thanks to everyone for listening. Great to be with you all.
Speaker 3:Thanks for tuning in to Risk and Resolve. See you next time.
