Risk & Resolve
The Risk & Resolve Podcast is your go-to resource for insightful conversations at the intersection of leadership, business ownership, and the insurance industry. Hosted by Ben Conner and Todd Hufford, this podcast dives deep into the challenges and opportunities that leaders face in an ever-changing world.
Each episode features candid discussions with business owners, industry experts, and thought leaders, exploring topics like innovation, risk management, and the strategies that drive success. Whether you’re an entrepreneur, executive, or insurance professional, you’ll gain actionable insights and inspiration to navigate today’s complex business landscape.
Tune in to Risk & Resolve—where leadership meets resilience.
Risk & Resolve
Faith, Leadership, and Legacy with Jon Tice, SVP of Mission at IMMI
In this episode of Risk & Resolve, Ben Conner and Todd Hufford sit down with Jon Tice, SVP of Mission at IMMI, pastor, and author of The Golfer’s Guide to Understanding Your Wife. Jon shares his journey from church leadership to the business world, how faith and values guide IMI’s global impact, and the lessons he’s learned about marriage, purpose, and leaving a legacy.
Key Talking Points:
- Jon’s journey from ministry to business leadership
- The “turtle on a fence post” analogy and the people who shaped his life
- Lessons from 39 years of marriage and writing his book on relationships
- IMMI’s transformation into an ESOP and its faith-friendly culture
- The challenge of balancing faith and business decisions at scale
- Leadership, mentorship, and chasing impact in the last third of life
You're listening to Risk and Resolve.
SPEAKER_02:Welcome back to another episode of The Risk and Resolve Pod. I am your co-host, Ben Connor, alongside Todd Hufford. Today, our special guest is John Tice. John is the SVP of Mission and Emmy. John, how are you doing today?
SPEAKER_01:Oh, great. Great to talk with you, Ben and Todd, and uh just looking forward to our conversation. Yeah, thanks for having me on.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, you're welcome. Awesome. Um, so John, he also founded and spearheads Emmy's Emmy Serves Global Initiative, giving employees two paid volunteer days. And you've also authored a book uh that is the golfer's guide to understanding your wife. Yes, man of many talents, an author. Um, but yeah, John, um, you've been with Emmy. Uh, I've looked it up. Uh, you started in July of 2014. I actually remember the first time we went and grabbed lunch together down in the Clay Terrace area. Um, but tell us a little bit about the days before Emmy and your journey um personally and professionally.
SPEAKER_01:Well, no, that's great. Yeah, 11 years here at Emmy, it's just been a wonderful journey, great company, family-owned organization since 1961, uh by the Anthony family, um, became an Aesop in 2022. So that's the Emmy story a little bit. But my story, um, I would begin with one of the things that Tom Anthony, who our uh is Dick Anthony, his uh his son, uh, taught me. And we were talking one time in terms of he said, John, you know, I've realized that really uh I'm just a turtle on a fence post. And I thought, that's so true. And I look at my life. Uh I mean a turtle on a fence post, you know that somebody had to do something to get the turtle there. And and uh somebody had to help that turtle. And I would say, you know, I look at my life and early on, you know, you're you're full of uh, at least I was, full of self and self and goals and all the things that I thought I wanted to do and accomplish. And of course, over time I think life has a way of humbling you and um getting you to a place where you're ready to receive. And and then when you're ready to really receive from uh life, you're ready to give. So my my story, I was I was uh born in New Jersey with uh to some uh a dad who's a business owner and and a grandfather and all of that, and spent six years in New Jersey, six years in South Carolina because he became an administrator uh at a university. I spent six years in North Carolina. So if you were to say, where did I really grow up? I would have said I grew up in North Carolina, spent from uh age 12 to 18, uh all of my growing up years, all the fun things you do, sports, athletics, uh of every kind. And and I love my North Carolina days in a town called Dollsboro, North Carolina. So uh it was a great experience. Went off to college, uh, went to a uh private Christian school in in South Carolina where my dad had been an administrator. So that was a great experience. Met my one wonderful wife, got married at 21, uh, and uh been married now 39 years. So uh it's been a fantastic uh journey. Uh she might not say it's been fantastic the whole time, but I would. So but uh for for me it's been quite a journey. Um came out of of college, the first 20 years of my life worked in the not-for-profit world in the in church life. So uh my father led left business and became a pastor. Um, I kind of followed in his footsteps, became a worked with youth pastors and and taught in a Christian school for uh a little while, coached and all used my sports and athletics. And then uh for uh about 20 years into that that life, I got really frustrated with some of the organizational elements of church life. Uh and I don't know if that's happened in other people's lives, but uh and I and I just said, uh God, would you give me an opportunity to get in this in the business community? And and uh by God's grace, I did. Uh I had a friend who took a chance on me and said, John, you've you're used to working with people and that kind of thing. And hey, let us come help you grow our people. And that's really what I went, worked for at a car dealership, um, uh Sherry Auto Auto Group here in in Indiana. I had since moved to there, and then through that uh met the Anthony family, and uh then Tom came and said, John, hey, come help us do at a global level uh what you've been doing here in Indiana locally. So uh went from 250 plus employees to at that point, uh Amy had about 1,300 employees, and since then we've doubled again in size almost. So uh been in the HR space in those last 20 years, and uh really now have shifted into this focus on the missional elements of Amy's mission, uh, which is to uh by God's grace maintain a dynamic growing business with a Christian impact. So uh, and we do that by living our values, honor God, serve people, deliver excellence, and grow profitably. So, in a brief snapshot, that's the life and times of the turtle on the fence post.
SPEAKER_02:What uh what brought what specifically brought you to Indiana? Was it that job or was there something else that struck the match and coming to Indiana?
SPEAKER_01:Well, you know, um my wife had followed me around in my dreams, like a lot of great spouses do. You know, men, we dream big dreams, and and uh our wives really are the ones who not only pay the price sometimes, but then also are thankfully very committed to us as human beings. And I uh my wife followed me around all over. She was an Indiana girl, grew up in uh Middletown, Indiana, uh, went to uh Indiana Christian Academy, uh, grew up here in this local area, and then her father passed away uh and left her mother a widow. And I I said at that time, I said there's certainly got to be some church work or something that can be done in the state of Indiana. I said, honey, I'll try to find some place. And and actually I didn't have to look very hard. I had a connection. I I just said to him, hey, I'm looking for something in Indiana, and you know somebody, and the next thing you know, I'm in Kokomo, Indiana. And uh so we in 1993 we moved to uh to Kokomo. Now I was 29 at the time, and I did tell you I grew up in um I grew up in North Carolina, but my wife would say I grew up in Indiana because clearly I wasn't at 29 quite grown up yet. So she uh she says, Yeah, John grew up in Indy in Indiana. So, well, maybe I did.
SPEAKER_02:That's great. So another thing I think that's really fascinating about your story that I've I've caught over over the years is not only are you creating a lot of impact in the professional world at Emmy and even before Emmy, but you're you're a pastor also.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, yes.
SPEAKER_02:So talk a little bit about that. Most people, when they're pastors, like that's a full-time gig. And and you you're you you do that as I guess a hobby. I don't know. What would you call it?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, well, I'm I'm not part of a bowling league or a golf league, so you everybody's gotta everybody's gotta do something on the weekend. So uh no, I actually been uh when I uh left the formal, I kind of set out for about a year in terms of the formal church structure when I um I and I just needed kind of a break. Uh nothing had happened in a major kind of way in church life. I just knew it was burning me out personally, and I needed it uh and I needed a different focus. And I'd always enjoyed business again. My father, grandfather were both business owners. I've always enjoyed the the thrill of of making a sale and being part of that and and uh negotiating and all those kind of things. Um and so the what happened was it's just like I laid out for about a year, and then I had a little church in our local community who actually was the the the um the church that the owner who of the car dealership was working for said John, I said we needed somebody to come speak, we're without a pastor. And so I started doing that with another retired pastor and started speaking on a regular basis, actually uh with less than a year from when I had uh uh left that full-time church gig. And um and and then I just kept doing that. And uh and I do have a passion for uh helping people discover faith or come back to faith. Um I really am passionate about it personally and try to help a lot of people over the years in their in their get get their guidance back to God or to God and and um believing that you know we all worship something, and so so helping people understand and discover faith uh and in the God of the Bible is what I've spent my personal life doing and have always done, actually, since uh I came to faith at 18 myself. So it's just part of my story, right? And everybody's got that journey. And so when I did that, um, the church continued to say, Hey John, would you just do this all the time? And I said, Well, no, I won't do it all the time. I said, But I'll be your full-time, part-time pastor if that's what you want. And so that's how that begun, and that's how it has continued. Now, thankfully, now the church has uh it's uh continued to ebb and flow like churches do, but we have two full-time pastors that work full-time. So I've been mentoring two young men who, in some in time, I'm gonna hand the baton off to one of those, uh, two of those guys, however, they work that out. But so I have a small staff, I have a little church in Kokomo, first congregational church in downtown Kokomo. Um, so I do that in terms of provide some leadership and teaching experience, uh, and and then they do the day-to-day in terms of caring for people and those kind of things. And so I stay involved with that. So I call it being co-vocational. You know, uh, by means to divide, co-means to bring together. And so I've always tried to seamlessly bring my life together into one unit, um, because we have enough things that divide us, and so I'm just trying to live out that in lots of different contexts, and that's all that's how uh that's how we do it.
SPEAKER_00:That's great, John. You mentioned uh back in 2022, not too very long ago, the IMI, which for years we all called IMMI, yes, right? Got a little bit of a name change, uh, or at least how you pronounce it, went and became an Aesop. Uh some people listening may be part of a company that's an ESOP, or you may have owners listening that are have thought about converting their company to an ESOP. You were, I think, still on that HR role. Um, yes. I bet you had a big hand in communicating to the people you were stewarding as to what this meant to them. Take us back to, I guess, 2020, 2021. How did that communication start?
SPEAKER_01:Well, I mean, first off, it's born in the heart of the of the ownership family, the Anthony's. And really, it's it's about uh, in some sense, the title of your uh your organization, your your pod, uh Risk and Resolve. Uh Tom Anthony was uh and Shelly had had really considered the our mission statement. And uh, and they were looking across their family, and there was no one who was really uh a successor, if you will, someone who would say, you know, hey, I want to take this and I want to manage and lead the business. And as Tom thought about that particularly, and then he really just said, you know, hey, I'm concerned about our mission, that it get lost. Um that unique uh faith-oriented, we call it faith-friendly, but not faith-forced, forced organ uh emphasis. Uh, we tell people often you can believe something about God or nothing about God and be fine to work at Emmy. But the the element of faith in the marketplace was something that the Anthony family had laid a great foundation for. And because of that, Tom said, I it's gotta be mission preservation. So that's what began in those conversations. And I think I remember he mentioned something to me again, maybe late 2021. And obviously, all these things were very quietly done and thought through. And so, but um, our our CEO, Larry Gray and uh Norm Gould, who is our uh CFO really, and our legal counsel, Matt King, all together um really laid the foundation for that with Tom. And we're just fulfilling what his desire was, he and his wife Shelly, to say, look, we want to hand this to the people. And so uh the east flops are fascinating. Employee stock ownership plan. I began to do a lot of reading myself personally, so I began to understand it. And so, yes, I sat in a lot of meetings and I uh really was uh amazed at the this program that actually began in 1974 in the US, which enables uh people, uh organizations to do some amazing things, allowing people to become owners. It's it's really the foundation of business ownership. And so um now that people can can come and be a part of that, and then and they're an emmy for they're 20 years old and they work a thousand hours in one year, and they become a part of the eSOP and they begin to earn stock in the company. So we're four years into it now, officially. So by the you you you you mentioned the question about the you know, the the how do you communicate it? Well, it I would say it's really hard for people to get their minds wrapped around it. It was for it was for me. Uh to just it's a mind-bending, uh it's very complicated, but the simple thing is I think our people are beginning to understand that. We just had our fourth valuation. Um, it people are beginning to look at their statements alongside of their 401k and thinking, wow, that's that's real money. And so I think uh people continue to earn shares. Our stock is continue to appreciate, doesn't mean it will every year, and trying to convey to people, you know, just like the stock market, it could go up and down. Um, but uh so it's important for us to convey that message to, you know, hey, what you do every day matters, and and our profitability as an organization matters, and then we want to share that with with our people. So, but overall, Todd, people are really getting it, and it's it's a it's gonna be a big deal for people uh off into the future.
SPEAKER_00:You mentioned uh the turtle, and uh, of course, if you you kind of left it there for a moment and then finished it for those that have never heard that analogy that you know turtles can't get on a on a post by themselves, on a fence post. So, who who are some of those people that you haven't already mentioned that that got you to the places that you have gotten to? Wow.
SPEAKER_01:Well, I mean, certainly most folks would say they're mom and dad. And and I hope, right? There's a lot of people who it it almost puts a lump in my throat because there's a lot of people that don't have the start that many of us have had. Um, and my father, you know, clearly strong work ethic and a strong understanding of um what I call a businessman's view of God. That you got stuff to do and you better get after it. My dad was very, I mean, he was uh high, high type A, very driven. Um very uh he was an executive level type leader all his life and started things and was involved in in community organizations and he modeled that kind of intensity, uh, sometimes you know, almost too intense. Those of you, those of us men who have fathers who are intense guys, um you can you can get caught up into that. And then a mother who was you know often provided that balance and balance. And my mom, I'll tell you this you think about one thing you can say about your mother, she just taught me to love Jesus. I mean, it's all about who he is as a person, it was nothing more than that. And so I remember walking by her room many, many times, and my mom being on her knees, and I could hear her pray for me. And that's pretty powerful stuff. But then from there, I would say, um, I had a uh a college peer, uh college roommate, Ross Robinson, who was a profound influence on my life, and it really was a great guy. Gotten emotional because uh I appreciate the question, Todd, because it's it's moving when you think about the people that uh have been used in your life. And then um I would say three other people outside of my wife. Obviously, my wife uh uh when you you when you choose somebody, I think I've told many, many times when you stand up there and tell somebody, you know, I love you and I cherish you until death just part, and I've said to people many times, I don't have the faintest clue what I meant. Okay, I had no idea what that meant. Uh, you know, being honest about that.
SPEAKER_02:Well, uh you know, I think that makes three of us.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, goodness, you know, you're sick and man, I love you till death to us partners. I have no idea what that means. Uh, but I think uh what I've learned through my wife has just been her constancy and and her consistency and her just who she is as a person. And I failed to appreciate that well in my first 10 years of marriage. You know, I was talking with some young men the other the other day, and I said, you know, and a young guy's getting ready to have a uh child, first child, and he was asking the question, hey, what advice would you give? And and the advice I gave was, man, don't miss your the value of your wife and and don't be so busy chasing other stuff that you think is gonna sad, you know, the the thing, right? Uh but I think I missed the heart of my wife in my first 10 years of marriage. And the last 30, almost 30 or years, I've really tried to chase her heart a lot better and haven't done it perfectly. But so she's a profound influence. And then um three other guys, a pastor, a guy named Greg Reed, profound influence in my life. Uh uh, my dear friend Rex Gingrich, who I work for uh for uh eight years, uh, taught me a lot about business and just uh really he took a chance on me in making that transition. Uh and then Tom Anthony, uh who I quoted at the very beginning. Tom has just had a profound influence on me as a human being. And and of course the Anthony family, Dick as well. Uh Dick's now 91 years old, still comes into the office a couple days, uh, two, three days a week, uh, still involved, engaged, has some of the challenges of people who are 91, right? But he's still at it. And uh so I'm those are the the people who helped put me uh into an opportunity that uh you know I would have never imagined, right? I mean, you look back at your life and say, hey, how'd you get there? I have no idea. I just I just I just kept trying to do the basics. I just showed up.
SPEAKER_02:What uh so you're talking about uh you know, chasing the heart of your wife. Um and you wrote a book, The Golfer's Guide to Understanding Your Wife. What was some of the influence around what made you want to write that book? And what what did you want to what did you want other to tell other people through that?
SPEAKER_01:Well, thankfully, again, again, I hope any of your listeners don't go out and look for it. It's out of print right now because again, not forget I actually am doing a re-edit of that. I'm gonna just release it via LinkedIn and give it away because it was some of the here's how it started, Ben. I mean, I was in my late uh 20s, started playing golf when I was 12 years old. My my uncle paid for me to have 12 or five golf lessons as a birthday present for my 12th birthday, and so that got me started playing golf. My dad was not a golfer, I loved the game all my life. Um, I wish it was a lot better than I uh I am, but you know what? I've had enough good shots to take me back, say I'm gonna go play again.
SPEAKER_02:He's on the 18th T, too, right?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, that's right. You know, yeah, usually you have one shot. Oh man, that's the best one I've ever had. I think I'm gonna come back and play. Yeah. Uh so there is a funny story if I could take a minute. Last night I was playing, I I I live on a uh a course that is that's one where you can go out. It's not highly played, so I can go out late at night and play three or four holes. So I got home late from uh from a trip to Mexico. So I got home late. I had about an hour of light. My wife was off doing something, and so I went out and and played uh what I call fast and furious golf. So I just played really fast and I just am out there by myself. It's just a release for me, right? So I'm out there coming up the 18th hole. I hit a great drive and I hit a great second shot. I was the bad news is nobody was there to see either why. So I'm out there myself. Yeah. So so I'm coming up to the to, and it was a part five of the 18th at our little course up in Kokomo, Green Acres. And so I I I chipped on um from there, and actually the ball was on the green. So man, I'm laying three, and and there's a bunch of guys who had a Wednesday night golf league, and they're up on the there's a uh a veranda there, they're all looking over, and they're all cutting up and laughing and loud, and I'm not paying attention to them. And so I get up there and and I and I it was a long ways. I mean, I was like 40 feet away. So anyway, long story short, I left it within 10 feet, and then I just sunk the putt. And there's a big roar on the crowd, you know, and the guys and the guy said, Oh, John, you just wanted some money. So they're up there on their betting on whether I'm gonna fleep pot or not. So I said, as I drove by over the guys, I said, Well, whoever believed in me, thank you. You know, for those of you that didn't, I'm I'm glad you didn't, you lost your money. So, but but anyway, uh the book um was really born out of um, I was meeting with some young men and I knew my own what I wish I would have applied, and taking some of the principles and skills from golf and applying them to your to your relationship with your wife. And so at that point, I was uh, you know, in my probably late, late 30s, early 40s, and on vacation, I just started writing down and uh and you know, what would I what's a principle from golf that applies in my relationship with my wife? So I just started making some notes and actually Ben, I did this for, I'm gonna guess, for 10 years. I mean, I just took this document out, I did it once a year. I just would write some things and eventually it it turned into, I think there's 10 chapters, and and I just took these principles to share with other young men to are saying, you know, I love golf or I love sport, but I need to take the same skill set and that I the things I love about golf and transfer them in my relation with my wife. And so that's what I did, and then I put it into a format and and then I published it a number of years ago, I think it was 2013, and then I had a buddy who did it, got it out there on Amazon for me and all this kind of thing. So my goal was never to, you know, I was not anticipating being a best-selling author. That was not my joy. My my goal was just to write some of those things down and to share them. And and those are the things that I've tried to do. And let me give you, I'll give you an example of one. So um, you know, uh I think it's chapter five, it's called pin placement. And so I, you know, you think about every day somebody goes out at the beginning of the morning and they change the pins. Well, and and the whole point of the analogy is that the golf course is the heart of your wife, right? And and it's and there's all kinds of challenges, but the the pursuing uh being connected to your wife is the course. That's the course. And so um I I talked about pin placement, and then I said, you know, nobody stands up there and gets frustrated with the groundskeeper because they, you know, they change the pin placement, right? You say, okay, they're trying to keep the course a little challenging, right? So today it's you know in the back left, and tomorrow it's in the front right. And I said, nobody runs down, you don't complain about the grainskeeper. I mean, everybody once in a while, you know, hear these PGA guys say, Oh, the pin placement's so horrible. But but you don't live in a state of frustration with the groundskeeper. He's just out there keeping the challenge up for you. And I said, so it's true. And sometimes you in in your wife, a lot of times I says men, we get frustrated. Our wife changed, changed her mind, and you know, the whole stereotypes of your spouse who is, you know, doing that. I said, look, don't get frustrated. It's just your wife keeping the challenge up, it's helping you realize that hey, you've got to continue to keep studying her. And how, and and our responsibility as men and to be good husbands, you got to study and chase your wife for a lifetime. And that's what till death to you part means. And and so I was just trying to help other men learn what I was learning and and using golf because I love it and I enjoy it, and uh so trying to make those transitions. That's how it began. That's a great analogy.
SPEAKER_02:I love that. Um, you mentioned something earlier about uh being co-vocational, and you were talking about your uh role as a pastor um and being in you know in business as well, but that wasn't your full-time gig. Um, it kind of seems that that may be applicable to your new role and the SVP of Emmy Mission, uh being co-vocational there uh to some extent. Can you explain for us what how this came about, uh your role? Um, because it's probably not necessarily there's probably not a job description out there necessarily for SVP of Mission. And so this is something that's really has fingerprints of Emmy all over it. So what about that?
SPEAKER_01:Well, I think um I think Larry Gray, uh who's been our our CEO since 2010, so Tom Anthony, the the uh second owner, again, Dick's son, uh said affectionately says he he said he fired himself and hired Larry. So he was the CEO from 2005 to 2010. He he he will tell you, and I'm uh I wasn't a very good CEO, so you know, although he was, you know, humbly speaking, he was a very capable guy. But Larry Gray, who was he started at Emmy in 2001, became um the CEO. So it's it's since since 2010. And I think Larry is a he's just a visionary kind of guy, and he's he's a strategic guy, and our company's grown really uh under his leadership in an exponential kind of way. And uh the I think the relationship that Tom and Larry had, uh I mean, Tom's heart is this is the mission. And and and Larry is the that that practical, okay. Well, how are we gonna live this out? So our four values, honor God, serve people, really is is really the love God, love people element of what Jesus taught. And deliver excellence, grow profitably is really, I think, uh what probably you could say the disciples lived out to help cause the mission of the church to expand, right? You gotta do things right and well, and you gotta be able to duplicate it and profit over and over and over again. I mean, money is simply the scorecard, in my opinion. It's how we keep score. Um, and and it represents the opportunity to do other really cool things. And and I say, so with that mindset, Larry captured that and and Larry has a combination of both. And Larry um said to me, and Julie Cooley, who has been with uh our team in in the communications area, said, John and Julie, I want to pair up your strengths, and and uh Julie's gonna focus more on the tactical uh HR elements of things and the approvement of some things that that um her communication skill and her view of hey, how we're gonna do this. Uh so she stepped into that rule role. Um and then I and John, I want you to focus on our missional elements. So uh and and really that has to do with succession, leadership development, um uh continuing that that training and development organization that everything everybody has to do. We got to continue to reign uh train leaders, and then I also want you to say, how do we live this mission throughout the world? So, because we have locations now in China, uh since 2012 in the United Kingdom, uh we had a plant in Slovakia for a period of time, and then we have a plant in Mexico as well as six in the US. So, with that balance, how do you drive your mission through the organization and keep it consistent? And so that's what my focus now is. It's really something I've always been doing for the last 11 years, except now he's just letting me focus on it and liberating me to do that. And then we also have a foundation. So, like a lot of organizations, um, that family taught us that we give. So we give a percentage of our profits to a foundation. Uh, that foundation is now run by uh 15 of our ME team members. Um, I have the opportunity to now be the executive director of that foundation, and I simply facilitate those uh those monies that are dispersed uh monthly. We meet every week 50 weeks, uh, 50 weeks a year. We meet every Friday. Our commitment is to that, and we meet for uh for an hour and we go over, you know, the state of the business in terms of the foundation, and then how we're gonna mobilize resources and get them into the hands of people and organizations who are uh fanning the flames of the Christian mission around the world.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, wow. I so Emmy as a business has always been, you know, and this is externally from my perspective, like a quiet leader, and quiet in the sense of like you guys aren't chasing publicity, or you're not you're not, you know, you're you you guys are just doing what you think is right for your business, but but you're leading in the fact that it is known that Emmy is a faith-friendly place, and all those things that you said otherwise, um, and there's really faith as the knitting of how you guys run your business and what your desires are as a business. Um, one that's been incredible to watch, first and foremost. Um, and that's been and then thankfully I've had somewhat of a an inner circle seat as we've done business together. Um, but I just want to, you know, formally say thank you for what you guys have done as a business in that area. And the the question element of that is um, you know, what what challenges or how does that how does that work in a business where, and maybe most of our listeners don't know, Emmy is not a small-time business. You just listed off a bunch of different countries that you guys do business in with you know over a thousand employees. And I think a lot of business, businesses that have that desire, um, and I know from our perspective, we're much, much smaller than you guys are. And as we grow, you know, there's opportunity for for for that to be difficult or for it to be watered down or whatever that may be, um, or maybe just to lose focus about it and just to be about business. How have you guys maintained focus and and how do you guys do that with so many employees?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah, that's good. Uh great question, Ben. And I thank you. First off, let me say thanks for you know the the the accolades or whatever saying, hey, keep going. And and certainly that's one of the things that we're excited about to be a part of. And we want to continue to say what can we do to encourage others? We don't have a formula, uh, we've got a story, and maybe that story will inspire other people. And that's our goal as it relates to the foundation that uh the Anthony's laid, and then um and then what we're trying to lay and live out today. Um, and yeah, and we are actually now we're 2,400 employees all over. So it's crazy that uh that's that's the number. When I first came, it was like uh 1300 or so, and so we've expanded uh by God's grace, and we've ebbed and flowed, and we've opened plants, we've had to close plants, and and just like all the nature of business, and those are hard things. I mean, those are business decisions. So I would uh that that say, hey, this is we've got to be successful in these areas. And how do you do that? Because, you know, when we had uh we've had furloughs of people, we've had to lay off people, we've had to release people at different times in our business, and consequently, I mean, then then here's the the biggest challenge. Anytime you put God in your mission statement and and you're you have to do and make a hard business decision somehow, um, then you become a target of criticism, additional criticism. And hey, that's all part of it. It's okay. Um, but I think the genuine heart of it, the heart of what we're trying to do is, you know, we genuinely care about people and and how do we live that out? And that's part of the practical ways of living it consistently every day. I mean, one of the things about what do we mean by honor God, well, that's to to to have with integrity, respect, compassion, treating others with grace and humility. Well, integrity means that, and we try to teach us this, and that is integrity says, okay, this is the game I want to play. The reality is all of us play a game that's not as good as the one we say we play. Right? So anytime you have a value statement or a mission statement, just like when I got married, I couldn't live up to the vows exactly every day. You know, I is a company. I there's a gap between what we say and what we live. Now, if you go to church, you know, you go walk into church life, they call you, well, you're a hypocrite. I'm not going to church because of the hypocrites. Well, okay, that's right. There are a lot of hypocrites at church, right? Because everybody talks about her game than they play. Okay.
SPEAKER_02:So Jesus is a pretty high bar that uh, you're not gonna be perfect, right?
SPEAKER_01:So the point is the same thing as an organization. So you set a high bar, but we're not gonna shoot 100%, right? The best in the world don't shoot 100%. Nobody's always gonna be the park offer. Everybody, you know, you're gonna have those mistakes. And so integrity is the word actually comes with the word integer, which means one, which means the narrow the gap from what we say to what we do. And so in the manufacturing world, we call that continuous improvement. Kaizan, that's continuous improvement. And and the theological word is sanctification, how you grow and change to get better. Um, and so I think the biggest thing is to continue to convey, to be honest about your failures, right? And and keep in a humble position and then recognize that we're trying to be faith-oriented. But I often tell people in our orientation classes when I get a chance to talk, look, don't be weird about it. I mean, sometimes you can be, you know, uh more spiritual than Jesus, I think. Okay, so that's that's what happens with I think religiousness in every context, right? There's every religious system that you get too many people who get aggressive on either end. Um and we see that we, you know, we call it radical Christianity or radical Islam or radical whatever. And it's easy to get out to the edges of things instead of saying, look, hey, just do the basics and live it out and let your life reflect what you believe. And I think trying to get give people the freedom of that. And if that's nothing or people aren't ready for that, that's okay, right? We don't we we make things available like and you talk about how do we live it out? Well, we make things available at like Bible study, but we don't make anybody come, we don't take attendance, we don't do that. We make it available for people, we bring in speakers, we might we provide a lunch for those you choose to attend, but other people can take the extra hour or extra the extra time and go go out to Wendy's or do whatever they want to do, get together with people that they want to talk to. One of the things that we did with the uh we call uh we we send out a weekly what we call iCore, Emmy Core. Uh uh the the Emmy Core of who we are is a story of the Anthony family. So it's something from a book that Dick wrote uh when he was 80 years old. And so we send it out every week and we discuss it and say, okay, what are the principles that Dick learned? And it's a great resource. It's like the the thinking of the business thinking of the Anthony family. So we do that. Um, I'm doing this podcast, I started a podcast internally that tells the stories of some of our members. We call it on mission. So, how what are they doing in their own lives to live on mission? Much like you guys are trying to do here with me, giving me an opportunity to share. And I appreciate it. So we're doing that internally at this point. It's not released to the public, it's just more of an internal tool to encourage people to get to know one another. Um, and then we talk about our mission, vision, values at every turn. It's it begins in our interview process, it's in our orientation. Uh, we talk about it, it's even some in our discipline process that look, I mean, this isn't consistent with what we are trying to become. And if you either change your ways or live in a in a direct way, if it's not, if it's not delivering excellence or growing profitable, or it's not some element of serving others, it's not respectful to people. Um, you know, good common sense HR stuff that says treat people well, right? Live the golden rule, and uh uh yet you won't have a problem. So I think that's how we are trying to live it out in practical ways.
SPEAKER_00:John, for over 60 years, Emmy's been uh manufacturing stuff, and uh it's mostly been in that safety harness space. And for the entire inception, while it may have been called something different, you guys have always been faith-friendly, right? Yes, that's correct, true to the core. Um when when your organization, you got 60 years of experience, when your organization goes out and buys stuff, buys services, buys material in your manufacturing process. What what rubric, what filter, what grid do you run through as it relates to that faith-friendly with your internal team? You mentioned, hey, you can believe something about God or nothing about God and still work at Emmy. Is there a similar path that you use for vendors? How do you guys think through that? I'm very interested because you've done it now for 60 years and you've done it across multiple generations. So you I know you've you you have some lessons learned through that. How do you approach that?
SPEAKER_01:Well, I think I think the thing to me is the deliver excellence. The door into that is the excellence piece. So you find partners who are who are sick who are committed to excellence in what they deliver. And what we have found over time, I think, is as you pursue other organizations and partner with organizations who are committed to excellence, at core, ultimately you'll get down to the elements of of principles or truths that are universal, regardless of whether you connect them to Christian thought or Buddhist thought or Islamic thought or whatever, there's a lot of systems of thought that are in the stream of, okay, hey, that's excellent. That's well, that's a that's done with with precision. And so we let that drive, I believe, and hey, who can deliver the goods? Who can who wants to partner with us to see our vision to bring safety to people around the world? And so since we've been doing that, everything from child seats, now one of our biggest areas is in bus seat manufacturing where we're trying to convince the world to put three-point harnesses on our kids in school buses. And we now partner with the three major, four major manufacturers to do so. So Thomas Built bus, IC bus, Bluebird bus, and Collins bus. All four have our seat systems on them now. Wow. And that has been a 25 plus year journey where we're trying to say, look, hey, just put your kid in a three-point harness. Well, school districts as a Mozart, still aren't doing it. Only eight states require it. But actually, Bluebird is one of those that's saying, hey, we're getting serious, more serious about safety. And so we're gonna make it part of just what we do. So I think that's coming and it will. I mean, years, 10 years from now, I think you're gonna have all kids in school bus seats, uh, and we're gonna have that buckle on there, I hope, uh, because that's our goal. Our goal is to be the the primary provider of that in the market. And so that's a couple of areas. Now we actually have uh, you know, eight other major areas of market. So you think, Todd, of it, I mean, our safety systems are on anything that's not in a car, not in an airplane, and not in an amusement park. So anything else that you can think of, we have a buckle or a strap that rich, you know, helps people stay safe. And now we're steering wheels and airbags and other things that are are making a difference. Uh, with with uh like Bluebird, Bluebirds are gonna have the first bus driver uh airbag uh system in it. And uh hard to believe that, but most school buses don't have airbag systems for the driver, so it's unconscionable. We would think of it, and you know, we don't get in a car that doesn't have an airbag, but uh we now will have that in terms of uh we're working with Bluebird to do that, and so that's a really cool that's the kind of finding who wants to be a part of that excellence, and then when you commit yourself to excellence, the principles to get there, right? Um like integrity, like uh and and uh honesty and transparency and uh intentionality and growing people and all of those other things, you can't do excellent work consistently without committing to principles that are timeless.
SPEAKER_00:Wow. You know, as I hear you talk, you keep talking safety, but I hear a different word. I hear that your product saves people, but I also hear that your culture has a real opportunity to save people.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Well, uh actually, uh there's one of our videos that we use of a young uh of a I should say a young lady who worked for us, but no, she's now worked for us for 30 plus years, uh, Trina, and she's been she talks about, you know, uh Emmy is really, and she her phrase she uses, Emmy isn't exist just to save lives, they exist to save souls. And so she captured it. And while we don't use that kind of as a tag, um, it is really hard. Uh Todd, I'm glad you captured it because that's really the heart of Emmy. Um, those that uh want to go that direction, uh we're gonna cast the net and invite them into that truth. But uh those that don't, we're gonna love you and care about you, and that's okay. We're gonna treat you with great with care and respect. And if that's not your thing, that's all right. And that's one of the balances that we try to live with. Um, how do you treat people with care and respect who don't think the way you think and believe something different than you do? And and trying to do that in a in a good way, um, still be diverse organizations, still have people who think differently, live differently, come at life differently. Uh, that's tough. It's tough to maintain. Uh, and we get criticized for not doing it well enough. Uh, yeah. I mean, that's part of living.
SPEAKER_02:It's part of living. Um, but I will tell you this again, we've been had the joy and pleasure of working with you guys for quite some time, and you guys are the real deal. So, regardless of you know, whatever criticism there is, or that one time you guys didn't meet the mark, I know from what I've seen that your guys' intentionality and your desire to uh uphold your values and care for your people just never wavers. That's that that really is your driving force. So I've just really appreciated uh seeing that.
SPEAKER_01:Um John, the feelings mutual Ben, and I appreciate uh Connor Insurance of what you guys have done to help us. Uh yeah, uh Ben and I often laugh about uh a season when I, in a moment of weakness, left Ben in the advisory group for three years. Uh and and uh it was my ultimately myself and my decision, and and I regretted it. It's one of the decisions I regret leaving Connor Insurance. So uh you guys have been a great partner, and uh uh you've you've never held it over my head, but I'll never forget it.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, you bring it up way more than you need to, that's for sure.
SPEAKER_01:That's good. I appreciate all this.
SPEAKER_02:It makes for a good story at this point, John.
SPEAKER_01:So it does, it makes for a much better story.
SPEAKER_02:Well, um, we usually close our episode with two questions for our guest. Um, so I'll ask the first one. Um, what is a what is I guess I need to uh what is a risk you have taken that has changed your life?
SPEAKER_01:I'd say I mean I go back to the the the risk of marriage. I mean, marriage is a risk. I mean, well over 50% still end a divorce. Um it it's a life-changing experience that for those who believe it's theirs and not marriage isn't for everybody. There's a great blessing for those who are single, and I believe in that. And uh I I have a friend who who is single, and I tell her, I said, We need to get you a t-shirt, says, I'm single. If it's good enough for Jesus, it's good enough for me. But uh, but anyway, the uh so I think to me that that's the greatest, the greatest risk I've ever taken was to to um to risk on another person and to make a declaration that I knew I didn't know I couldn't commit completely to, right? But I mean you've tried to live your vows and be true and faithful and all the things that you would expect, but uh in every detail. Boy, uh so I'm so thankful for for that uh risk I took. And uh I mean the rest of all the others are calculated risks, and so they're they pale in comparison.
unknown:Yeah, scattered.
SPEAKER_00:John, you've had a winding road professionally and personally as well. Many different states, many actually different types of occupations have gotten you to this place. I pray you have a very long road. So the last question is what is left yet unfinished that you have the resolve to complete?
SPEAKER_01:Ah, well, that's that's a great question. And I'm I'm at the pivotal point of that. I just turned 61. Um, and uh when I was 27 years old, I wrote down the things that I wanted to accomplish in my life. I was very detailed in terms of those things. At the age of 53, I'd accomplished 73% of the things on my list. Um, and and this something that I had updated over and over again in years, and and uh some of them things, some of the things shouldn't have been on the list anyway. So again, there's things at 27 you think that's a dude, that's a stupid idea.
SPEAKER_00:Are you giving right now the freedom to not do those things?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I yeah, I'm I'm not I'm deleting those. I'm not doing that. Okay, but the other thing is Todd, to answer your question, is um I I believe uh I'd like to shoot for one third left. So if I'd like to live to be 90. Uh, and if I could, what would I do in the next 30 years? So right now I'm in the process of reforming and taking, okay, what do I want to see in the next 30 years? And and the biggest thing is I want to be faithful as a as a man, I want to be faithful as a husband, I want to be faithful as a deliverer to the next generation, those things that I learned that were helpful, and to not become a distraction to those who are coming behind. And um, so that's my goal, right? It's just to not become a distraction, to be, to be really uh helpful to other people. And uh so I'm looking forward to it. I believe that many times the last third of life uh is actually the most productive for people. If you do some studies in history and those kind of things, many people accomplished incredible things in the last third of their life. Um, I mean, think about this Jesus lived 90% of his life, 30 years before he did one public thing. And then actually three years of flurry. Um, Moses lived two-thirds of his life. He was 80 before he led the children of Israel out of uh there. Abraham was 102 of his 175-year-old life. So two-thirds of life was gone. There's a lot of history and stories of that. And so I just want to be faithful in the last uh third, I hope, of my life. And if it's all done tomorrow, it's okay. I've I've uh by God's grace lived a very great life. And I tell my kids all the time, if uh if if I'm gone someday, don't feel don't feel sorry for me. Yeah. I mean, I hope you cry at least for 24 hours, but you know, you know, I hope you're a little sad, but but uh I've lived a wonderful life and um and I've been very thankful and had lots of opportunities uh to live a fulfilling experience. And I hope that people get a chance to chase those things and and just live it. Live with passion. Whatever you do, chase it with all you got, and uh, and and you'll look back and think, man, that's what I was supposed to chase. Awesome. Thanks, John.
SPEAKER_02:Well, John, uh, thanks for joining us today. Um, I've appreciated again the professional relationship, but also building building a friendship over the last decade. So uh thanks again for joining us today on the Risk and Resolve Pod. And thanks to our listeners, and we'll see you next time.
