Risk & Resolve

How Workplace Chaplaincy Solves Hidden Employee Struggles

• Conner Insurance • Episode 34

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What if the most valuable benefit in your company isn’t a perk, but a person? In this episode, we sit down with Marcus Schrader—president and CEO of Workforce Chaplains—to explore how confidential, relational care inside the workplace is addressing the emotional and spiritual needs that traditional EAPs and wellness programs often miss. From shop floors to corporate offices, Marcus reveals why more leaders are investing in chaplains and care coaches to strengthen culture, retention, and performance. Here’s what we dive into: 

• faith roots and discovery of corporate chaplaincy
• founding story and early risks
• scale across companies, states and locations
• post‑2020 surge in need and demand
• inclusive care model without proselytizing
• where and how conversations happen
• triage boundaries and referral networks
• part‑time team model and recruitment
• ROI for leaders, retention and culture gains
• transformation stories and long‑tail impact
• fatherhood insights that shape care
• resolve to lead at home and at work

Whether you’re rethinking employee support, exploring care coaches, or building a culture where people feel truly seen, this conversation gives you a practical roadmap to start. If the insights resonated, subscribe to the show, share this episode with a leader who values people, and leave a review to help others discover these conversations. 

SPEAKER_02:

We're listening to Risk and Resolve.

SPEAKER_00:

And now for your host, Ben Connor and Todd Hufford.

SPEAKER_02:

Welcome back to another episode of Risk and Resolve. I'm Ben Connor with your co-host, Todd Hufford. And we have today Marcus Schrader, president and CEO of Workforce Chaplains. Previously, Marcus was the vice president at Crossroads Bible College, now the College of Biblical Studies, where he served for 15 years. And we know that Marcus is very passionate about helping business leaders becoming better and serving their employees in a holistic way by helping with their spiritual and emotional needs. Marcus, thanks for being with us today.

SPEAKER_01:

Thank you, man and Todd. Yes, great to be here.

SPEAKER_02:

Awesome. Well, before we start talking about workforce chaplains, uh, tell us a little bit about what you did before workforce chaplains and how you were prepared for the moment when you were called to start that company.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, awesome. That's a good question. You know, um, I I share this story with some people. It resonates as pretty neat to go back to where I was before workforce. I got to go back a little bit, but my my father uh came to Christ at Wheaton College. So many, maybe you and your listeners have heard of Wheaton. My dad went to Wheaton, he was not a believer. He gave his life to Christ at Wheaton. Uh so and then um so changed his life. He was in one direction going in this way, and then obviously when he intersected with Christ, his life changed. He then went to Grace Seminary, some of us are familiar with up, you know, in northern Indiana. Went out of yeah, he got a few seminary degrees there, ended up getting a doctorate, and that led to I was pretty much raised in Lynchburg, Virginia, because my father taught Hebrew and Old Testament at Liberty. Now, Liberty University in 2025 had looks quite a bit different than it did in 1980 when we moved there. But um I that's where I grew up, 1980, 1990, grew up in Lynchburg. But in that type of a family with a seminary professor, understanding ministry, that led me to go personally to a Bible college. Um, and this is getting to how I landed in Indianapolis and before workforce, but went to Bible college myself. I went to seminary, kind of followed in my dad's footsteps. What brought me to Indianapolis was in the summer of 2007, Dr. Ware, the president of the Bible college on the east side of Indianapolis, offered me a job, and that's what brought me to Indy, and I worked with him. And that's kind of what for 15 years, as you mentioned, that led up. That's kind of the prior uh history before Workforce Chaplain started.

SPEAKER_02:

That's awesome. Um so he was a professor of Old Testament and Hebrew. Marcus, how's your Hebrew?

SPEAKER_01:

Great question. My Greek is a lot better. I can I can look at any Greek word and pronounce it and and say it and then tell you what it means. Hebrew's a little different, it's more, it's harder. You know, I know that the letters are the alphabet like Aleph and Baith, etc. Uh, but looking at a Hebrew word right now, if you showed it to me and I had to read it, I I'd struggle with reading it and I might not even know what the word means.

SPEAKER_02:

So all right. Well, well, but better than me, I'll tell you that. Um so you had that experience, and then the there's this, you know, God placed uh idea in your mind to maybe to start a chaplaincy service and and take that into the marketplace. What did that experience look like for you?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, that's a great question. When I went to seminary, I was aware that sometimes guys would go and to the military to be chaplains. That was something recruiters would come to the seminary, talk about hey, if you come become a chaplain in the Air Force, you know, Army, Navy, Marines, whatever. And I I saw that they always had a pretty good sales pitch too. They were good recruiters. I remember one time in seminaries, like, we'll give you$30,000 to sign up and all these other things. But my one question, I said, now I'm married with two small kids. Will I ever get deployed? Well, like the unit I'm attached to, because they were recruiting also not only the guard, the reserves, but even in the full time, you know, I was naive. And I said, now I ever have to be away from my wife and kids. Well, they were upfront and honest as, oh yeah, like that's gonna happen. So I was like, no, thank you. So in seminary, that wasn't a thought thought of doing chaplaincy. So my mind, hospital, military, sports teams, that was it. I didn't become aware of chaplaincy in the corporate space really till 2014. That it was just a foreign idea to me. I was not aware of it, I didn't know it was a thing. Um, and in 2014, while working at the local Bible college, Crossroads, you know, I went to my boss, the president there, Dr. Ware, and said, hey, I have an opportunity to do some on the on the side, some chaplain work. And he was supportive. He's like, Marcus, as long as you're doing your job well and and and you're producing and you know, you have the time and margin. So I was able to um, it's interesting. I don't know if y'all remember the company called Defenders, Defenders. Um a few years ago they sold to ADT, so now they're ADT, but that organization wanted chaplains, and I I went to serve them with an organization, another or chaplain organization. And it took me about a week, Van and Todd, to realize this is different than church ministry, Bible college ministry, or any ministry I've ever been a part of. I'm going into a setting with people from a wide spectrum from everywhere, from the far left, far right, whatever, atheist agnostic to highly religious to nothing, everything in between. And they were willing and open to talk with me. After about a month, I remember I went to the president of the college, I went to my my pastor, and I said, Man, this is exciting. This is something I I love. And I got a I had a passion right away. And that goes back to about 2014. Now, the idea for workforce chaplains probably came about three years later, where it became obvious that if I were to do this full-time as my full-time thing, that I probably needed to start my own organization. Um, we don't need to go into the details there, but the one organization didn't have a pathway to become full-time, the other organization did, but due to factors there, it wasn't going to work for me with a wife. And at the time, about five kids, and you know, I have seven children. Uh, we will talk about that later. But so I got some advice from some people in the industry, and they said, Marcus, it'll be hard, it'll be a step of faith, but you might think about consider starting your own organization, and that was in 17. And then we made that leap of faith in 18. When I say we, my wife and I, and you know, I guess you could say the rest is history. So that's so before 14, was not even aware of this as a as a thing. Um, and now, of course, however many 11 years later, I'm very aware of what workforce chaplaincy is all about.

SPEAKER_00:

Marcus, give us some ideas to how many businesses workforce chaplains is serving today in 2025.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, thank thanks for that. You know, when we first started in our first year, when the year ended, um we were serving two companies. We had three chaplains, and I think the two companies represented about uh maybe 150 employees. The metrics we like to track, we're we're pushing up to serving, we're available to serve close to 40,000 employees. We go each month to uh I think the latest account we had is about 280 locations. And um, we're somewhere, when I say somewhere, this might sound um like I don't know what I'm talking about, but we're somewhere um between 50 and 60 companies. Where it gets confusing is there are some companies, like an entity, it's a company, but they have three or four different entities under them, or it's one company and they maybe have you know 10 locations. And sometimes when you're at a location, they they operate as their own independent organization, but they're actually part of the parent company. So I think it's safe to say 50 to 60 companies, about 275 locations that represent about 40,000 employees who on any given day can reach out to one of our chaplains for support.

SPEAKER_00:

And how many chaplains serve those 40,000 or yeah, employees?

SPEAKER_01:

We're we're at about 70 now. So we've yeah, and um many people they ask, Marcus, how did that happen? And it is a simple answer. It's the Lord, it's God, it's his blessing, and it's I will say this the need. The need is there from the fall, sorry, spring of 2020 specifically up until now. Many, many companies they're seeing a need within their organizations for something else, another uh benefit, as it were, another tool to help folks. We're we would tell people we're we're not we're not workforce chaplains is not going to solve everything within your company. However, we can be a piece to the puzzle as you care for your employees. And so the need, between the need and then God's blessing, we've seen this growth from two chap to two chaplains in 2018 to over 70 now.

SPEAKER_00:

I'm sure you talk about it, but when you think about the wind that is at your back, uh um what are some of those factors you think that conspired together to create this awesome movement where business owners are very open, very receptive to not only hear the message, but to sign on the dotted line and hire you guys.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. That's something we we we think about a lot and we're able to see. And I think we have some data to back up what I'm gonna say. But um, well, one, there's been a push across America for wellness programs, for work-life balance, for you know, the whole person that you treat. I know one company we served, Gaylor Electric, talks about total human health. And but many companies are talking about this. They want holistic care for their employees. And so that seems to have been a buzzword for the last five or 10 years. Um, and then when everything happened with um COVID, people start working remotely, you kind of lose some of the culture, people have other stresses. My kids go into school today, but tomorrow he's doing e-learning. And then, you know, uh, he's going to school tomorrow, and then someone tested positive. So now he's not going back for 10 days. So all the stress of 2020, 2021, throw into that political stress, financial stress. These company leaders are noticing the person outside of work, they're struggling with so many things, trying to juggle all these things from personal, family, financial. Then they're bringing those things into work. And uh many company leaders who do truly care for their employees, but they also realize we need productive employees. They're just looking for anything that works. And so even though you think of chaplain as maybe a spiritual type thing, many of these company leaders, they're not looking for something spiritual per se, Todd. They're looking for something that works that'll help their employees struggling with things to become a better employee and to get some of the healing they need. And so, yeah, all those different factors, the turmoil in our culture, the financial turmoil, things that happened to COVID, and this truly uh, I think, legitimate thought by company leaders to care for the whole person, all those things have come together where it's been way simpler and easier to get company leaders to say yes to us to a service like ours because they're already there. They know it's needed.

SPEAKER_02:

So you mentioned, I want to kind of double-click into that, that obviously you're going to work on behalf of an employer who um you you are coming from the position of chaplain as a Christian uh and as a you know a counselor of sorts in in a in a faith-based way, but you're intersecting with people of all walks of life. Um how do you do that effectively? Um and what does that look like within the marketplace?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, that's um that's a good question too. We are noticing there are other chaplain organizations across the country. And we're myself and there's another guy helpsing around the company, Darren. Darren Day, he's our COO. Uh we're noticing that other chaplain organizations are open to the idea of like care coaches, care partners, maybe even life coach. Uh, and and when we're noticing some of the leading chaplain organizations that are Christian based are open to that, we're still bringing the same type of care. Our type of care is to love, serve, care, listen, be there for people, not to judge people, help them with whatever their needs are. But that need is so important. Um that even a slight adjustment of if a company wants us to be called care care coaches or care partners, like we're willing to do that. Um, we thought about that, you know, it's like, oh, is the word chaplain so, you know, special that we can't we can't change that name? No, we're willing to do that because at the end of the day, we want to bring our friendship and our resources and our care to as many people as possible. And so, but the way that we um navigate being able to serve everybody, is simply um the the local YMCA has a uh there's an association and they their their motto is to love, serve, and care for their employees and their customers, um, the the clients, the members of the Y. And we are we got permission to basically steal that um that phrase. And so that's our mission is to love, serve, and care. I mean, what leader, whether they're an atheist, agnostic, maybe they're Christian, Buddhist, Muslim, if we say we're gonna bring in people that are gonna be friendly, nice, and loving, and they're gonna care for your people, they're not gonna judge them, they're not gonna proselytize, they're not gonna try to convince them to drop this set of beliefs and adopt these. No, we're just there to simply love, serve, and care. What we have found is a leader in any type of company is open to that. Now they might be concerned, are you gonna hand out Bibles to everybody and are you gonna be inviting them to your particular church, which we won't do, but we just share with that. No, we're just there to serve and care. And but we also make it clear if a person has a spiritual need and they open that door to come to us for help, we are ready and able to address that as well. And so um it seems to have been once clearly understood within a culture of a company, it seems to go really well.

SPEAKER_02:

So, what type of conversations are you, and obviously not the exact conversations, but what type of conversations are you having in the professional setting with with folks? What what what's the aperture of conversation? And then I guess I usually don't like to ask two-part questions, but the second part is where are you having these conversations? Is it just in the workplace or are you guys meeting people outside of the office? What does that look like?

SPEAKER_01:

So I just wrote this down so I can remember what you said. I'm getting I just turned 51 recently. My short-term memory seems to be leaving me. So, but uh, I got you here. Um, well, here's what I would say. I know both of you decently well. Think about you're out at a coffee shop studying by yourself, or you're out, no wife, no kids, no other, but you're just out somewhere in the in the culture during a day. And what what do you talk to the lady you're ordering your coffee from someplace? Maybe just you start up some conversation, or there's a guy or lady sitting right to you. Maybe what you might talk about sports. Hey, did you see the Patriots game last night? Oh man, they almost won two overtime, you know, they were down, they were short-handed, but I mean, whatever. If you are a people person, if you're trying to stir up a conversation, regardless of whether you're trying to sell something or just trying to be a nice, friendly human being, those are the type of things chaplains talk about. You know, maybe they're wearing a Notre Dame hat. So you say, Oh, I got a big game coming up. Or, you know, you see someone with IU. I was somewhere the other day and deck out all in blue, white, and red and IU. Oh, do you know, you know, uh, big game this weekend, you know, it's kind of a trap game. You know, you celebrate, they start off bad, whatever. I'm like, we try to find anything and everything that's just natural that's easy to start the conversation. We don't start with spiritual things. We're not saying, oh, how was church this past Sunday? Did you go to Mass Saturday? Like, so my my question, my my answer would be it's no different than anyone else in our society who wants to start a conversation with someone just to be friendly and just to be nice. So it can be about anything. Um, but I will say this, we're not starting at that spiritual level and we avoid politics. That's another thing we're gonna do. It's not starting off with, so what'd you think about the No Kings rally, you know, last weekend? That's not what we're gonna do. So that's in our training. We we don't go there, but um, as to where the much of our conversations with employees who are in companies that have partnered with us that we would consider our clients, a lot of those conversations happen outside of work, over lunch, over breakfast, over coffee. We look at visiting the office area as a culture building um scenario um where they get to know who we are. We're giving them a business card, we're just small chit chat. And then someone will say, Hey, Marcus, listen, I'm going through some things. Uh, can we meet sometime? And so that's where a lot of it uh happens. So um, whatever's best for that employee and the workplace, because one of our big things is not to interrupt the workflow. So we don't want to come in and, you know, want to, let's say we're at your organization and someone has to re-answer calls or they're in sales or whatever they're in. You don't probably want us in their office for an hour chit-chatting with them, even though you care about them and saying, oh, maybe they're getting some help from Chaplin Marcus. But that's probably not what you would prefer. So without interrupting the workflow, we find out that outside of office hours is a good time to meet and talk with employees.

SPEAKER_00:

I I would think, Marcus, that issues get raised that even across 70 people you don't have the expertise to address. Can you give us an example of a type of situation where you would sort of triage the need, triage the request, and you might pull in another organization or another uh person to help serve whatever's going on?

SPEAKER_01:

Yes, that's a great question, and it happens. The need for that happens all the time. Um just recently, you you guys might know Chaplin Margot, Chaplin Margot Award, one of one of our chaplains, who's great. Company on the west side had a need. This lady works there, um, but had a housing issue need. Well, our chaplain, in this case, Margot, has a lot of connections with local nonprofits, local uh ministries that help women and help women specifically with housing and and things like that. And within three to four hours between our connections that workforce chaplains and our chaplains have with local resources, we had a place for that lady to be moving into that afternoon. Wow. Um, a personal example, I met at a Starbucks a few months ago with a guy from one of the companies we serve, and we met, and I'm just listening to him shares things with me because we know we know our scope of care, and we're gonna limit our help to that scope of care. We're not mental health professionals, we're not therapists, we're not a licensed psychiatrist. So I had a person come to me, he's sharing with me that he's been diagnosed with some different things, and he's questioning whether to stay on his medicine or not, and then he's asking me for my advice. Well, Marcus Schrader, seminary grad, ordained pastor, worked at a Bible college 15 years. That's not my area of expertise. That's not my lane. I'm not gonna give him advice whether he should stay on his medication or not. That simple answer is simply, yeah. Well, I'm not the best guy to ask you really who's your provider? Who are you meeting with? Who's your psychiatrist? You need to talk to them. And then I'm gonna encourage them to do that. I'm gonna say, actually, I would say don't get off that medication until you give permission or you run it by them. And so we are trained to stay in our lane, uh, regardless of what the issues might be. But if it is an issue that we can help with, again, housing, finances. Uh, we also are aware of many organizations that provide um counseling therapy for free. They provide scholarships. We do a lot of stuff with Emberwood. Um, and then we do things with other organizations out there that maybe you do have to pay for, but we know that they are licensed with the state, they have a good methodology, and we might forward someone to care to change. But before we do something like that, we're talking to the HR people within the organization to see what benefits the company might already have. Have you reached out to the EAP? Have you reached out to, we had a person come recently, financial issues. Now, I think I'm decent with finances, I'm not great with it, but I'm not Pete the planner, or I'm not, you know, another group that that's their expertise. Well, I come to find out this this particular bank we're serving, they actually have a contract with an organization that'll give you three free financial consultations. So I just need to be aware of that and I steer them there versus, oh, you need help financially? Yeah, you're talking to the right guy. No.

SPEAKER_00:

I think that's probably part of your secret sauce. Knowing which lane not only each individual chaplain plays, but the whole organization together. 70 chaplains, um, how many of those are full-time?

SPEAKER_01:

Um, that's that's a good question. And that's um kind of been helpful for us to be able to grow and sustain ourselves financially. We are a nonprofit, but most of our chaplains are 1099 contractors. Uh, we have about, and if Darren was on this, he would know for sure maybe 12W-2, but the others are 1099, and and it's it's great for us and them. For example, we had a guy a couple years ago reach out. Hey, Marcus, I pastored for 36 years at such and such a church on the west side, a big church, a mega church. I didn't recognize his name, but he goes, I'm looking for something to do. I'm retiring in three months. Just want to stay involved in ministry. At the time, he didn't know we paid our chaplains. He didn't find that out till later. It might have been as late as like getting paid or something. He's like, wait, wait, get paid for this, but we do pay but he wanted to do about 10 hours a week. He does stuff in Ukraine, he does stuff with his association. That's what he wanted. He wanted 10 hours a week. Most of our chaplains, uh, I mentioned Margot Ward earlier. That young, that lady is so involved in so many things, Hamilton County jail, Marion County jail, other things. Most of our chaplains don't want to be full time. Well, that works out good for us for different reasons that you might be aware of. Um, helps us out financially. We're not paying benefits, you know, for these folks. And um, so it's about 12 W-2s and the other, however many that would be. Um, what's 58? Um, that are 1099. But again, the vast majority of those, like that's all they want. We'll allow someone who qualify who is qualified to be a chaplain, who have who who has done a good job in the past, they work with us, we'll let them tell us how many hours they would ideally like to have in a week. Right. And that's normally six to twelve, and we can work with that. But if it's more, we'll work with that too.

SPEAKER_00:

Is over the course of the time you've been doing this, have there been times where you've had more chaplains than clients, and times when you've had more clients than chaplains, where you've had a need for one or the other, or has it always been skewed a certain way where you've always been deficient on one side?

SPEAKER_01:

We've been really blessed to not really have been deficient on one side. One reason is because of the maturity of the chaplains. I would say this for the for the eight years we've been doing this, most chaplains want more work. But they're not demanding, they're not texting, they're not emailing. They know as we grow and as we land another client, that's going to be opportunities for them to get more work. And so normally, most of this time, we've had more chaplains than we need. They're content with their load of cases they have, but as we've grown, we just plug them in. The biggest challenge has been we've grown to other states. We're serving in about eight other states. And of course, um, we're gonna onboard the company up in the Des Moines-Ankony, Iowa area here soon. Well, I didn't have a chaplain in Des Moines-Ankony, Iowa. Why? Because there was no company in the Des Moines area that we were serving. So when that came to our attention, we yes, we now had a deficiency. We need to recruit one. And it we we learned it takes one to three months to to to recruit and to train and to vet and to onboard a chaplain. So out of state, that can be a challenge that we are able to address. In Indiana, we haven't had a problem. We we've had plenty of chaplains. And honestly, Todd, we have to turn away chaplains. I mean, I'm getting, we get emails and texts through our website and personal frequently um about people wanting to be on our team. And I'm great, I'm sure they're great people. I see their resume, I look at their stuff. We have to say, sorry, we don't have anything for you. Because we don't want to leave people on, get them in the system, and they're sitting there just waiting for a year or two. So we we just got to be honest with them and say we don't have any, um, we don't have any places for you right now.

SPEAKER_02:

So where are they typically are they former pastors or just um they are they coming from everywhere? Like just people who like volunteering and you know, they retired or what what does the what does the mix look like?

SPEAKER_01:

Everywhere. Um, anybody who might be listening to this later, go to workforcechaplains.com, click on meet the team. Most of our chaplains are on that page, not all of them, but you can read their bio. One of our top chaplains, ER nurse of St. Vincent for many years, wife, a few children, just had a baby actually recently, so now she has three, never been in ministry, attended church, lives the Lord, but she became a chaplain. Now we have training you go through, we they become ordained, they shadow other chaplains, but up until her connecting with workforce did not have a history there. What she had, her skill set, she was outgoing, friendly, high emotional intelligence, and a nurse at St. Vincent. Well, when this lady, Kate, you can check her out on her website. Kate goes to a long-term care facility, goes to a nursing home. Do you think she connects well with the director of nursing there? Do you think she connects well with the nurses there providing care for the elderly? Yes, she does. They love her. Um, and so there's an example of never been a pastor, never been in ministry. She's on our team. Now, with that being said, I mentioned the pastor who pastored 36 years on the west side of Indy. Um, you know, all those experiences, we were serving some nursing, um, some um uh a large uh funeral company, and we were onboarding at some of the funeral homes. It was interesting. They all knew this pastor. Because over the years, he goes, Yeah, Marcus, I've probably done two, three, four hundred funerals in these, in these uh fruit funeral homes over the years. So, um, but um, so we have a mix. We have some with seminary training, and then we have some, like my wife, Jennifer, she got a degree from a Bible college, and she's been um a stay-at-home mom raising seven children. Um, and she serves a few companies, and the women there love her because they can relate to her. And so it's a diverse section. We're looking for people with high emotional intelligence, empathy, a walk with God, care for others, and that are willing to be trained because you do there is a um, there are definitely the do's and the don'ts within this, within this industry, and they just need to be able to learn that.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. So when you mentioned that uh uh individual that was a nurse, did she dial back her hours as a nurse or since she had children, is she, hey, I'm staying at home with my kids, but I want to do this for a few hours a week to just get out and do something? Like what was what what's the how does that work?

SPEAKER_01:

Now, in her case, she was a uh she was an ER nurse at St. Vincent. She was already uh part-time there, but she had the ability to pick and choose the hour she was uh wanting to do. She actually started working with us during the COVID season. So during the COVID season, I mean there were times you could do back to back shifts. I mean, they were paying very, very well, but it was she could just do one or two shifts a week. I think I believe her shifts were 16 hour shifts. There were times she would do a 16 hour shift, maybe let's say on a Monday, and then serve us for two or three days, but she could pick and choose. Now, not everybody has that flexibility. But we allow them, if they're doing another job, you you you do whatever you need to do there. Just let us know what your availability is, and we're going to customize a schedule that works good for them. Most of the companies we serve are very flexible. Um, they're okay. They know a chaplain's coming once a week, once every other week, or once a month. And as long as they have a little bit of heads up, they don't care. So companies are willing to work with our schedule, and then we're willing to work with the chaplain's schedule. But I know in her case, she had flexibility, and um it just worked out. It worked out well. Other people who have a job, another job. We have a few actually who are full-time. They have a full-time job. We have one particular person, he's a hospice chaplain, full-time, end-of-life care, right? The hospice care. Um, but he has margin, Saturdays, evenings, et cetera, to also help us. And he just kind of switches the hat because workplace chaplaincy does have a different feel and different qualities needed, attributes, than end-of-life hospice care. But at the end of the day, empathy, love, concern, a listening ear, those qualities follow chaplains, whether it's in the military, a sports team, hospice, hospital, or corporate. So we're looking for people with those qualities.

SPEAKER_02:

So seven years ago, you launched into the idea of this company more or less, and fast forward into the end of 2025. What when you when you look back, how would you describe the journey that you've been on in forming this company, performing chaplain work personally, and seeing the impact that you guys have been able to create. How would you how would you describe that?

SPEAKER_01:

I would describe it as so I know that the the title of your podcast is risk and resolve. And just jump into that, that was the biggest risk I've I've made in my life. Um deciding to do this because up until starting workforce chaplains, I always worked for an organization that paid me a paycheck every couple weeks. I knew what my con my salary was, and I'd go to work, get paid, come home. Had the pressure of doing my job and delivering in my job responsibilities, but not in pressure of making sure there's money to get paid. So starting workforce, it was a leap of faith where I don't know if a year or two from now we're even gonna have money to pay me much less than anyone else. And so it was a major uh just leap of faith, trusting the Lord. Without a doubt, the biggest risk I've taken. Uh, you might say, what about when you got married? No, I didn't think it was a risk when I got married. I dated my wife for a while. I knew her. Like, yeah, we don't truly know our wives until we get married, but I don't see that as a big risk. Could have been, but it turned out well. But to me, I described it's really miraculous. The Lord did it. And um, it took, it took faith, it took hard work. But as a believer, I I think of one of my favorite passages, Proverbs 3, 5, and 6, trust in the Lord with all your heart, believe not on your own understanding, and in all your ways acknowledge him, and he'll direct your paths. I've seen these last seven or eight years as God directing our paths. Um, and so prayer, faith, and a trust in God has been what I've relied on the the this this whole season of workforce chaplains.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, I'm gonna double-click back into impact though. When you think of impact of workforce chaplains, well, how would you describe that? Um impact of your work.

SPEAKER_01:

Sure. Well, that's what keeps me going, Ben. Um 10, 15 minutes ago, I alluded to Defender. I I started as a chaplain of Defender 2014 with another organization. There was a guy named Bryce. He was a hero. Sales guy, he wrote, there was a guy named Landon. Talked to him about sports, weather. Both Bryce and Landon brought up spiritual things, both deeply philosophical. One was raised Catholic, one not much, anyways. Okay, talked to him was their friend, and joined them, joined them both. Nothing ever really developed outside of that. They both say, but you know what? I leave Defender, I start workforce, I go on with my life. In March of this year, Landon reaches out through Facebook, hadn't talked to him for the longest time. He said, Chaplain Marcus, I've been thinking of you these last few years. I've never gotten a hold of you, but God's doing something in my life. I just want you to know that. Pray for me. About a month later, I still got the message in my Facebook. He gave us life to Christ. He connected to a church. And not too much after that, just actually a few months after that, which would have been just to say about a month ago, Bryce, who worked at Defender, reaches out, Marcus. I thought of you. You're you're you're you would be the only priest or pastor or chaplain I would know of. I want you to pray for me. God's doing something. And he gave his life to Christ. Both of these men, one is like 37, I believe the other one's about 39. That the foundation was laid in 2014 and 15 when I was just available showing up with the badgets at Chaplain Marcus, and we talked about stuff. And then now, fast forward, I mean 11 years later, and these two men are have given their life to God, you talk about an impact and motivation to keep going. That that's what it is. And and even if a person doesn't have that type of transformation, if any man, woman, any person, any employee, after having an interaction with myself or any of our chaplains, feels like they're better off for it, feels like someone listened to them, someone valued them, someone cared for them, and they have a friend. We like to say too, we're offering a friendship. This isn't just, hey, you're buying our products and services, a transactional thing. This is a, we're hoping for an authentic friendship where you know chaplain Mary or Margot or Susie or Marcus or Bill or Nair, and they care for you. Like that right there, to me, like it doesn't get any better than that. And so to that, those are the things that I think of when it comes to impact and what keeps me motivated moving forward.

SPEAKER_00:

Marcus, there's a a phrase, I think this is the right phrase in stage, you know, like on TV and stuff. There's the fourth wall, you know, that uh you never break the fourth wall. And obviously, we're on a uh a Zoom recorded call, so we're catch we're actually already breaking that wall because we're looking directly at the camera. If you were to break that fourth wall and look into the camera and speak directly to business owners that maybe haven't thought about adding chaplain services or have thought about it but haven't done it, take a minute, make that pitch as to why they need to consider this as an additional benefit.

SPEAKER_01:

I would say two main factors why they need to consider this. Whether it's a mosque, a parish, a church, whatever type of religious place of worship you want to call it, in America, going to a place of worship on a Saturday or Sunday is by far at an all-time low. The employees in your company, whether they're Catholic or historically or Protestant or whatever it might be or nothing, they're not attending, which means they don't have that priest, minister, pastor, or person to go to. They're not part of like a small group or community group. You have people in your company in in 2025, unlike in the 70s, 80s, and 90s, where so many people had that place of connection and community and worship. They don't have that anymore. And so that's a serious deficiency and help within the lives of employees in your company. And so realizing that people are like mind, body, spirit. We have the emotional side, we have the uh physical side, but we have that spiritual side. I think business leaders asked the question whether or not many of my employees are not getting it in traditional places where they did years ago. They need that to be addressed. They need help in those areas. Well, how can I help address that when I think of holistic care and total human health? And so I would say a chaplain program like us, and there's others across the country, or um, even connecting with, I mean, you guys know you had a guy on recently from IMMI. Well, they have like a full-time chaplain embedded in their company. I think that's great. Our model is not a full-time chaplain. Our model is more part-time, a team of chaplains, but IMMI does it. That's a great model. Tyson Foods, chaplains inside. Vermeer, full-time chaplains who are W-2 employees, right in their hobby lobby chaplains in there. You have all these, there's so many ways to do it. But what I'm learning, companies, large and small, private, you know, for-profit, non-for-profit, they're understanding that their employee, their employees have personal, emotional, and spiritual needs that are not being addressed. And by bringing on a chaplain organization or an individual to meet that need for the people within their organization is vital. It's going to help with retention. It's going to help with a better employee. And then I would say to them, especially the owners or the C-suite level people, you're making an investment in the lives of people that will last not only help them be a better employee, but hopefully a better spouse, better father, mother, just a better person. Um, and so I think it's it's really critical, especially when no matter who you decide to go with, there's options out there. I would say workforce chaplains is one of the top ones, but it's economical. The three largest chaplain organizations in America are nonprofits, and we are as well, but it's economical. Most people are always surprised. We finally get to the point, like, well, how much is this going to cost me? I know it's going to cost. How much is it? When we end up sharing our financial uh proposal, they realize, okay, because they're thinking, it's like hiring a couple full-time employees. You know, they're thinking a little bit different outside of that. And um, and so it's it's definitely uh doable financially. It's needed, your employees need it. And at the end of the day, you're making a long-term investment into your people. And I don't see how that can ever go wrong.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. I hear you describe like a pandemic of isolation. And that is true. And even if it's not true for a specific person, there's likely isolation for whatever the minute struggle may be. That isn't obviously minute in their life. It's massive and it's disruptive. But even if it's not this massive isolation, people are isolated with struggles for sure. Um, you know, I want to give you uh, you know, as a so we're a customer of yours. Uh, thankfully, you guys have served our uh organization for a few years now, and I can easily say that it is certainly the best benefit that we offer. Um, and what you described earlier is that it's a benefit that shows up and tells someone that they have dignity and they have value, that they're an image bearer. Um, and I don't think there's a another benefit that can impact someone in a more consequential way. Um so I just want to thank you for that and also be a testimonial. And you brought up Emmy, and I've talked with with John from Emmy a few times about this, but we were we're building our case study of like the success we've had as partners together from a benefits perspective. And it was really neat. He was like, Well, the thing that needs to be like number one, our best benefit is our chaplain service. A hundred percent. And it's so true. Um, the ability to, as you mentioned, you're not just helping someone in the moment, you know, show up in the moment that you know they need help, but like you're helping them be a better person, spouse, brother or sister, father or mother, son or daughter, you know, like whatever role they're in, it's helping them realize the best version of themselves. So um then I was also thinking about just the butterfly, butterfly effect to some extent, of like, you know, you mentioned the story of those two individuals that you talked to back in 2020, and all the individuals you've talked to since, and you know, the impact, the ripple that that's had, like you'll never know until on this side of heaven, but uh just incredible to have conversations and meaningful ones at that that start with maybe talking about the Colts game or you know, talking about you know generational IU football that's never happened like this before. But then it turns into a meaningful conversation about things that actually matter. Um just so cool. Um, one thing I wanted to to ask you about, and you've brought it up twice now. You have seven children.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes.

SPEAKER_02:

As a father of seven children, how has how has being a father of seven children helped you be a better chaplain uh in your in your work?

SPEAKER_01:

That's a great question. I am glad you asked it because it's helped me in many, many ways. I would not be able to be the chaplain I am today without in many ways the seven children, because my oldest is 26. You know, I have the different ages, girls, boys. I as I'm interacting with people, most people, many people have have children, right? And when you have a range of eight, I have an eight-year-old daughter all the way up to a 26-year-old son. When you and and um they're gonna have kids around that age. And so I might say, Oh, they have two kids, oh, what are their ages? And 10 and 13. Oh, yeah. I get a son, Noah's 10, and Bethany's 13.

SPEAKER_02:

I got one of those.

SPEAKER_01:

I'm talking to someone, they're like, who have a 25, 26? They're struggling with their 25. Yeah, I have a 26-year-old. And and here's the thing of the seven, some are struggling and things in their life, some are flourishing. I have a girl who does clogging. And I might say something, yeah, I just got up from Nashville. My girl was at a national clogging tournament. What is clogging? Or they know what clogging is. Oh, they're into clogging. Oh, let me see a picture. And so I talk about clogging. That's Emma. She's our 18-year-old. Uh, but you have ones doing soccer, whatever it might be. And so it allows me, I now have a seven times greater chance to connect with someone based on what I hear about them. Now, of course, if they don't have any children, maybe they're single, maybe they never married, or maybe they've been married without children. I'm not gonna lever, I'm not gonna really emphasize the seven children. I mean, I'm trying to pick and choose what will most relate to this person. I live in New Palestine. Just, I'll tell you what. When I meant, where are you from? People are like, where are you from? New power, New Palestine. Oh my goodness. Everybody says something about that. Oh, they got a frosty boy out there. We've been going there since we were kids, or oh, their football team is really good, or you name it. Oh, isn't that the dragons? That's this. I'm like, so it the kids allow me to connect, and then they'll, oh, your dear wife. How does she do that? Or I heard people say you say something like, Oh, you I mean, this is the P you scheme, PG, like, oh, you dirty dog. How come? How do you do that to your wife? I was like, my wife wanted kids, my wife wants kids. I've offered to do things to not have any more kids. Like, you know, I don't know if I'll go to that right away, but it just has been wonderful. It allows, it allows for connection. And then when I go back, I'm asking a person about their kids, but you know what's cool? They start asking me about my kids. Oh, yeah, you said so and so. I got a daughter now going to a Bible college in Kauai. When appropriate, I'll mention that. And you imagine a person, they're not a person of faith, they don't care, but they say, Kawhi is where I honeymooned. Oh, we're going back there, you know, in 26. Where's she staying at? Oh, she's in Poi Poo. That's where we stay. And so having seven children is very beneficial to make a connection with people because that's what we're trying to do. We're trying, you've heard the famous statement people don't care how much you know until they know how much you care. And if you bring children up, talk about them and where they've been and things like that, and and you follow up with that over the visits, over the months and the quarters and the years, they know you care. And now, guess what, Ben? They're gonna listen when there's an issue in their life and they ask you your view. Now they're gonna listen to you because they think you care. And and we do care. So I'd leverage the seven children as much as I can. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, you uh you have a very clear love for people, which is obviously an overflow of your love for the Lord. Um, you know, thanks for joining us today. We have two questions that we ask every guest. You already talked about this, but I'm still gonna ask you anyway, uh, because we're gonna maybe dig into it a little bit further. But what is a risk that you have taken that has changed your life?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I would say um, so when I when I started as a chaplain 14, and I said within the first week or first month I knew this was something, I read a book called Halftime by Bob Buford. And as I was reading the book Halftime, he talks about you know the subtitles from success to significance. And he talks about in the second half of your, let's say, career, working career, vocational career, what are you most passionate about? What do you want to do? And in the book, he's like, just do it. Just do it. And so it was clear. As I read that book, I don't remember who gave it to me. Somebody gave it to me. Like, I'm passionate about chaplains in the workplace. That's what I'm passionate about. That gives me energy. That's what I like. And um, so then the next step is so what are you gonna do about it? Uh, how are you gonna make that happen? So the risk was starting workforce chaplains without any long-term commitment. We didn't start with any major, any capital, if you want to call it, or donor funds or anything. The idea was to see if we can land some companies that that see the value of our care. And if enough companies see our value and if our chaplains produce, because I will say this, forget the names of like marketplace chaplains, corporate chaplains of America, or workforce. The names don't mean anything. What makes this work is the individual chaplain. Um, Brad, the chaplain at Emmy. He's an awesome dude. That's why it's working at that place because Brad Pointer is a wonderful chaplain. I know another great chaplain friend, Ray Marsh. You know why the companies that, and he's with another company, he's not with us, he doesn't serve workforce. I would it'd be cool if he did. They love chaplaincy, and those businesses cause a ray. Like it all rises and falls on the chaplains. And so the the that was the biggest risk. But what God did is he brought me wonderful chaplains who go out there and do the work. And so, um, but that would be the biggest risk. And um, so far it's it's worked out. I'm not guaranteed the future, but I'm very happy with where we are right now.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, speaking about the future, Marcus, what is left yet unfinished that you have the resolve to complete?

SPEAKER_01:

That'll be a short and simple answer there. You know, we all have different roles, and you you do, you guys do as me. Like we're fathers, right? We're we're husbands and we're we're um we're we're sons. What I what I want to do, I was listening to a podcast recently and uh Beckett Cook, and he was one of eight, and he was the eighth child. And recently on his podcast, he mentioned that his parents were tired by the time he came around. They were like over 20 something years in between number one and number eight. He was number eight. They were tired. He said, he just said, and I that his parents really didn't put much time and effort into him like they did the other kids. It was almost like, we're done. We're older, we've done this. And he his own admission, he thinks that was detriment to his upbringing, and he struggled and he walked away from the Lord up until his early 40s, up until late 30s, early 40s. And we just heard that the other day. My wife and I were talking about that. So I'm resolved in my role as a father. Yes, I got a 26-year-old, 23-year-old, 20-year-old. You could argue they're out of the home. Am I their father? Yes. But am I parenting them like I have for years? No, they're on their own. And really, my 18-year-old's close to that. But I have an 8, 10, and 13-year-old, and I'm resolved to not be lazy, to not give my eight and 10-year-old cell phones at this age. I I'm not gonna, even though many of their friends have it, I am resolved with God's help, to be a better father with my younger three than even than my older three. So that's the one thing resolved and be, I guess the roles that I have as a father and then even as a son. My my my father's 83 now and he's having some health issues. And I'm resolved, and he lives in Alabama, so that makes it a little challenge. But as he and his wife, my stepmom have health issues, I need to be there for him. I need to give back to him for what he did for me my whole life. So those are those are that would be the answer to resolve to continue to be, with God's grace, a good father and not get lax and a good son and help my my father as he is getting into the latter latter years of his life.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, I don't know if your wife Jennifer is going to listen to this, but for some listeners, as soon as I said what's left yet unfinished, and you brought up somebody that has eight kids, all of our minds went straight to he's going for one more. So thanks for clarifying that. I do appreciate the uh the the resolve there because that I think that can happen to anybody, whether you've got eight kids or two kids.

SPEAKER_02:

That's right. That's right. Well, Marcus, thanks for for joining us today, and thanks for sharing us your heart as a leader of workforce chaplains in the the heart to to serve people. Again, I couldn't encourage a business leader anymore to to look into your services, and it truly is a game changer for uh caring for your workforce. So thanks again for joining us, and thanks to everyone for joining us on another episode of Risk and Resolve. We'll catch you next time.

SPEAKER_01:

Thank you, Ben.

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Ben Conner

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