Building A Purpose-Driven Agency That Wins Long-Term with Chance Benbow

Growth comes from clear values, brave creativity, and showing up for clients when it matters most. In this episode, we sit down with Chance Benbow, CEO of JDA Worldwide, to explore how a client-first mindset and faith-informed leadership drive measurable results across brand, digital, PR, and media.

We dig into how courageous creativity, face-to-face trust, and service orientation turned a Midwestern agency into a long-term growth partner for purpose-driven brands. Chance shares lessons from his career, including:

• Childhood lessons decoding ads
 • Launching an agency in his twenties
 • Faith-driven values and leadership
 • Beating the 18-month client churn
 • Building culture through in-person collaboration
 • Creativity across brand, web, PR, and media
 • CEO personal branding and impactful PR
 • Risk, resolve, and founding Intersection

Chance also shares candid insights on pride, legacy, hiring for temperament over résumé, and anchoring campaigns to measurable growth goals rather than shiny deliverables.

If this episode resonates, subscribe, share with a teammate, and leave a review—then ask yourself: what part of your growth plan needs more courage and clarity today?

Transcript

Introductions And Early Influences

SPEAKER_01 0:01

You're listening to Risk and Resolve. And now for your host, Ben Connor and David Hufford.

SPEAKER_00 0:08

Welcome back to another episode of Risk and Resolve. I'm your co-host Ben Connor along with Todd Hufford. And today our guest is Chance Benbo, CEO of JDA Worldwide. And Chance has a long history of marketing success, uh, serving as a chief marketing officer for Prolific, Vice President of Marketing on Main Street, co-founding Intersection, a boutique, a boutique marketing and branding agency in Muncie, Indiana, proud alumnus of Anderson University, and was a football player for the Ravens.

SPEAKER_02 0:51

You can't tell anymore, but once upon a time.

SPEAKER_00 0:54

How about that? Football player for the Ravens. Actually, that was a surprise to me as I was reading the bio. Uh, so uh very, very cool. Chance, welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_02 1:06

It's great to be here. Thanks for having me, Ben.

SPEAKER_00 1:08

Awesome. Well, let's rewind, let's go back in the time machine and uh tell us a little bit about uh growing up. Obviously, you work in a family business, so your dad is an entrepreneur. Um so what's it like growing up in the household of an entrepreneur and and uh kind of launching into the to the work world?

Growing Up In An Ad Household

SPEAKER_02 1:28

Yeah, yeah. No, uh, grew up in Muncie, Indiana. So proud Muncie boy. And yeah, it was it was fun growing up in uh our home. You know, dad traveled a lot uh for work and things like that. He founded a pretty innovative company back in 1987 that uh placed paid media ads on these brand new cable TV networks called ESPN and CNN and the History Channel and things like that. Uh and they did it in mid-sized markets like Milwaukee and Naperville and Royal Oak and Yes Muncie and Mesa, Arizona, and places like that. Uh so that took him uh around, but he always seemed uh to find his way back home uh on a consistent basis, even if that meant uh late nights and early mornings and things like that. And the fun thing was because it was advertising, I grew up watching TV a lot different than most kids. We talked about how valuable bookend ads were the first break and the last break in between uh a show and the following commercial. And hey, why do you think they're playing that music? And why do you think it was that actor that was selected and things of that nature? So uh from an early age, you know, kind of understood why people advertise and the hidden meaning behind ads and the overt messages through those communications. So it was fun.

SPEAKER_00 2:52

So ESPN was equal parts entertainment, equal parts class. That's right.

SPEAKER_02 2:57

Yeah, yep. So maybe I need to tell my wife that's why I need to watch football so often is to say that's right on all things work and entertainment.

SPEAKER_00 3:05

So yeah, this is why we need to watch the Colts game. This is why we need to prioritize that. Um, so what what took you to Anderson University?

SPEAKER_02 3:12

Yeah, you know, I played football at Delta High School and uh certainly, you know, wasn't uh of Division I caliber, and I loved to play and wanted to continue to do that. At that time, Anderson also had the you know top-ranked Christian business school in the country, and that was a big draw. Um and I just, you know, for whatever reason felt like that was home. I visited Taylor, I visited, you know, some other places, and there was just something about Anderson that kind of drew me there. I'm not gonna lie, like at the time, Anderson had really cool, like all black and orange uniforms too. And I remember I was at Taylor and I was walking through the football hallway, and Anderson and Taylor play for the wagon wheel, and there were pictures of the wagon wheel game, and I just kept sensing like I was looking at Anderson's uniforms a little bit. I was like, those are those are pretty sweet. So uh went there, visited, kind of fell in love with the place, and uh the rest is history.

SPEAKER_00 4:15

So how fitting for the marketing of the football team to uh to pull you into Anderson and uh you know or orange and black versus like the purple, I probably would have uh probably would have selected Anderson too.

SPEAKER_02 4:31

Yeah, no, I and I got lucky too. We ended up two and two against Taylor uh for the wagon wheel, and then Taylor got really good, and we've since kind of flattened out uh a little bit, but I can claim at least two wagon wheel victories uh over the Trojans. So uh might be a while until we get another one, but for now, uh I got that claim to fame.

SPEAKER_00 4:53

Take it away from you.

SPEAKER_02 4:54

That's right.

SPEAKER_01 4:55

So chance to tell us what JDA does today.

SPEAKER_02 4:59

Yeah, JDA is a full service marketing firm. So we do everything from brand and creative to web and digital, earned media, paid media, owned media, pretty much anything in the marketing and communication sphere we do. I think the big difference with us, a couple things. One, we really love representing uh faith-based leaders, purpose-driven leaders. That's a niche for us. The other thing that we like to do is we're probably not like niche into a specific uh practice. Like we don't just do web or we don't just do brand. And the reason why is I think that gets into a little bit of a silver bullet selling mentality of like if you're a web agency, right? The answer to all your problems is a new website. Or if if branding is your single expertise, it's like if only you rebranded, all your problems would be solved. So we really like to flip it and start with the client's goals in mind and say, hey, what is some growth metric that has been keeping you up at night? And for us, then we can work backwards and say, okay, what practices within JDA can we bring to bear to accomplish that as efficiently and effectively as possible? So we really enjoy the fact that we have uh some firepower across multiple different practices because not every situation requires maybe just one or two things. It could require a lot of things or just one specific uh function. So we like that, and that's you know been a good differentiator, uh, differentiator for us here the last you know few years.

SPEAKER_01 6:35

You guys list uh Indy, of course, as headquarters, but also Nashville and Washington, D.C. What's happening in those markets and why you're there?

SPEAKER_02 6:44

Yeah. DC, we have a good pocket of clients in Washington, D.C. We have the benefit of representing the Kennedy Center. Uh, we're doing work with an organization affiliated with the Department of Transportation, Museum of the Bible, American Legislative Exchange Council. We do some work with Pepperdine and their DC campus there. Um, many of our clients have a need to be in DC. So that's just become a place where you know we're visiting there pretty frequently on behalf of our clients. And then Nashville was by way of an acquisition. So we acquired a PR firm that had a big presence in Nashville. And that's really a market that we want to take more advantage of. It's booming, and we don't have a big base of clients there yet, but we have a great team there made up of you know three or four really strong PR teammates. So uh need to get down there more, but yeah, Indy's home. So uh a lot of the team is here, and uh we uh we certainly enjoy Indy.

SPEAKER_00 7:48

Um so you mentioned that uh purpose-driven, faith-based leaders is is your niche. How did you is that something that you guys were intentional about in the with the onset of the business, or is that something that has, you know, as the business has evolved, that has really become something that is special to your organization to focus on?

What JDA Worldwide Actually Does

SPEAKER_02 8:14

Yeah, it wasn't something that just kind of evolved. We've kind of been tip of the spear that way since the founding. So the cool thing with JDA is uh it actually stands for Joseph David Advertising. Uh, back in the day when we were doing a lot more just advertising work. Uh, there is no Mr. Joseph or Mrs. David. It's uh the Joseph and the David from the Old Testament. And those two Old Testament heroes epitomize our core values at JDA. So Joseph was an interpreter of dreams and a trusted advisor to the Pharaoh. And we kind of fashion ourselves as trusted advisors and interpreters of dreams to CEOs and business leaders. And we want to try to possess that same wisdom that doesn't come just from us. And David was one of the most creative men to ever live. So our third core value is to be courageously creative, not just checking the box or being creative for the sake of being creative. And he was also ready to fight. Uh, we have a lot of former athletes around here. And, you know, when we're up against tough deadlines or marketing a cause that's really high impact, we really like to have a little bit of that competitive edge to us uh to say, hey, let's make sure that we go out and try to get as much of this market as we possibly can. And we're gonna fight tooth and nail, shoulder to shoulder with our partners to do that. So that's always kind of been a part of our ethos. And because of that, we represent a lot of secular brands led by purpose-driven, faith-driven leaders. And then we represent a lot of enterprise faith brands uh as well. So that's always just been a part of it. And we have a good chunk of our portfolio that's neither of those. And, you know, um, that's great too. We enjoy all the clients. Anyone who's trying to make a difference in the world and do something big, get more market share, drive more impact, generate more revenue, have a more relevant brand. We want to be a part of that growth story. It just happens to be that, you know, we've found a good chunk of partners who happen to share our values, and that's that's neat.

SPEAKER_00 10:19

Yeah. You uh so obviously we talked about your dad being in in the marketing world and and talking about that as you're watching uh ESPN growing up and getting a lesson there. Um, but your journey wasn't always like, hey, I'm gonna go into the family business. Um maybe even resisted that. Um, so uh you started your own thing. Um, you also had uh an experience to lead with Zeke Turner. Um tell us about your journey growing up into marketing and kind of what your thought was about the family business before you ultimately ended up there.

Faith-Driven Positioning And Core Values

SPEAKER_02 11:00

Yeah, well, you know, I think for me, I took a class at Anderson where we managed an account. And my account was Irwin Union Bank in Indianapolis. Some of the listeners might remember that uh bank. And we for the entire semester managed the account and we came up with a campaign for them, identified a new target audience, took some of their unique differentiation and took it to market. And doing that, I was like, I certainly want to do this. And especially having the background, you know, with my dad and things like that, I knew that that was a fit. But then, you know, a funny thing happened is you know, I just I got this weird sense, and I think in hindsight, I can confidently say that it is definitely pride and ego driven, and you know, probably honestly some fear of man too. I really didn't want to join the family business for all of the typical like woke up on third base, silver spoon, only got here because of, you know, X, Y, and Z. So I kind of just said, you know what, forget that. I'm gonna do this on my own and not give those people the right to say that I didn't earn this. So yeah, the first half of my career um wasn't really family business involved. Um, I worked at a a cool agency in Fort Wayne, um, didn't have any connections there, other than the fact that um, you know, their their mission statement was love God, love people, love branding. And I was like, I want to work at that agency. So I got to represent GE and their rebranded line of um like HVAC motors and equipment, things like that. I got to do a little bit of work with do-it best hardware, uh, help out on you know some big accounts like that. I was low man on the totem pole, learned a ton about agency life through that experience. Um, but you know, fast, you know, rewind a couple years. I started a little agency in college after representing Urban Union Bank. And me and a friend of mine started that up. And we thought about continuing it forward, but decided not to. But six months later, after this job, we called each other and we were like, hey, let's go do it, let's do it together. And we got a ton of help, you know, from my dad, who was able to give us counsel and advice and you know, things of that nature. So that was that was great. But, you know, a couple 23-year-olds and a 22-year-old starting our own agency was uh pretty fun. And we actually found a way to make it work and and grew it uh over a three-year stretch. Um, but yeah, it was it was a fun experience to to get to do that.

SPEAKER_00 13:43

Uh, what are some of the main lessons you took away from from that experience in particular?

SPEAKER_02 13:49

Well, Ben, one is you can't be an employee and an owner of a company at the same time. So it turns out if you don't save some money for Uncle Sam, um, he's gonna come knock us. So we with our modest salaries uh still at that time, and by modest I mean like practically nothing. All three of us had a massive tax bill at the end of our first year, and we're like, this sucks. Like we we made like a thousand dollars of profit in our first year, which we were very, very proud of, right? Um, so but we learned that. But no, man, in all seriousness, uh acting like an owner is something that we learned really early on, and just understanding like this machine of like payroll, office rent, supplies, stocking the fridge, like that wheel never stops. And the only way to keep that going is more revenue, new partners, and continuing to serve our existing portfolio really, really well. So just really coming to grips with the fact that like the answer to most problems is more revenue and keeping the good revenue that you have. So learning that lesson up close and personal was invaluable. And my role in the agency was relationships and new business and some of that stuff. And luckily, I had you know two partners, two dear friends of mine who no matter what I sold, I just chuck it over and say, All right, you guys got this ball, and it'll a little bit of an alley oop. So that was really valuable to just understand like in order for all of us to get paid and to hire people and to get raises and bonuses, the only way to do that is for us to drive more meaningful partnerships. And when you're looking at um a PL every month, it just slaps you in the face. And that was an invaluable experience for me.

SPEAKER_01 15:37

Your dad gave you some advice, gave you some help, gave you some good ideas. As uh you think about passing that down to the next generation. What were some of the best pieces of advice he gave you during that season?

Starting An Agency Young: Lessons Learned

SPEAKER_02 15:51

Oh man, uh client first is probably the big one. I think oftentimes in an agency, there's this uh protection for our process, um, our way of doing things, our this and our that. And don't get me wrong, like I that is important. But at the end of the day, like we are here to serve our partners and maximize the growth goals that they put forth. And we need to do everything we can to do that. And I think sometimes we get it twisted of like, well, our team and our process is first, and then the client is after that. And he just really encouraged us to say, make sure that client is first priority. And we carried that with us, just to say, we're gonna fight really hard for our partners. And yes, we have our way of doing things, and we need to be good stewards of our timelines and set good expectations and not get walked on and things of that nature, but just having a reverence for the client and making sure that their mission and their purpose gets inside our bones. And I can go through any number of our clients who their cause is now our cause. And I think that starts with having a really high view of those we serve. And that was just kind of ingrained to us at an early age. Not to be transactional, not to say they're just uh an invoice to send. It's like, no, their cause is your cause now. And that was a fun, fun thing to learn at an early age.

SPEAKER_01 17:15

What's that? What does your industry say the average lifespan of a client in your industry is for how many years? 18 months.

SPEAKER_02 17:24

Wow. Yeah, it's it's not very long, and we have been really blessed to have long-term relationships. We've been able to represent answers in Genesis since 2005. We've represented Museum of the Bible for the last eight or nine years. A lot of clients, uh, big life, they're one of the fastest growing disciple-making ministries in the world. We've represented them since 2014. Um mock natural resources, they're a publicly traded oil and gas company, represented them since 2011. So a lot of favor, a lot of deep relationships. Again, when their mission becomes yours and it's a relationship and not a transaction, then you enjoy that. So we're not perfect. Uh, not every partnership has lasted that long, but we try really hard to say, let's take care of our core business and then continue to grow. But those relationships we love because they've lasted a lot longer than industry standard. Yeah, that's cool.

SPEAKER_00 18:26

I love that you said the idea of a reverence for the client, uh, just something that is just so respectful and like honoring of that relationship, which I do think can get lost when you focus on you know what what we have to deliver. Um, so that that that that's excellent.

SPEAKER_02 18:48

And it affects the work too, Ben, right? It if we have a reverence for what they do, and there are times when we think more of what the client does than they think of what they do. Now, don't get me wrong, like we could be accused of, oh, that's just marketing spin or things like that. And I would just say, okay, are we optimistic? Yes, we are, but it is our job to think the highest and the best and the most of everything that our partners do. And the one example I think a lot about is, you know, we used to do some work with a metal spinning company in rural Indiana. And these parts that they created went into serve the defense industry. So if you walked to the showroom of that facility, it wouldn't be a lot to look at. And, you know, it was a humble organization. But the way we looked at it is like, no, this isn't just a metal spinning manufacturer. This organization keeps our country safe. And I don't think that's BS. I think that's real. And to be able to get everyone on board with that vision of what I do matters, and what we do as an organization is far bigger than just this assembly. Line in this product that we manufacture, it is a lot bigger than that. It's families, it's our country, it's our values, it's the special thing that we've had, you know, for 250 years. So I just don't think that that's BS. I think it's having a high view of what they do and then letting the work exude that belief as well.

SPEAKER_00 20:20

Yeah. Well, it's also not marketing spin because if it weren't true that that business added value, then the business wouldn't exist.

SPEAKER_02 20:29

No.

SPEAKER_00 20:29

And it's also serving the employees that work there and their families and creating a wage where they can go live their lives and raise a family and do those things. So I don't think that's marketing spin at all. I think that's identified value.

Client First And Uncommon Retention

SPEAKER_02 20:46

Yeah. And it pops up in more places than we think. I think about your business. You guys are there at the moment when people are maybe in some of the most traumatic spots of their life. Who's gonna be there? Who do I call? Who do I text? It's not some 1-800 number. It's like, I'm calling Ben, I'm texting Ben. And I think those little moments in life matter a lot. And the the the ability to bottle that up and share it with an entire audience is a fun, special thing. And it's um it's important. And you're right. Then there also is the practical of like this creates jobs and livelihood and you know, spurs on the economy. Right. Um, that's actually a funny story. I'll I'll try to be quick with this one. Um, my dad, when he was graduating from Wabash, he got an interview at this really prestigious ad agency, Leo Burnett, in Chicago. Yeah. And he was interviewing with this gentleman, and it was the last question. He had crushed all the interviews. And he said, Hey, Brad, why do you want to work in advertising? What's your why? And he had answered all these questions perfectly up until this one. And he kind of flippantly was like, Oh, you know, it's you can make some money, it's new every day, it's creative, and just kind of blew it off a little bit. So this gentleman goes back to him and he's like, Hey, I just want you to know how horrible of an answer that was, and it probably cost you this job. And he went on to tell him, he said, I work on the Heinz catch-up account. When I do really good work for Heinz, more people get hired, which means those parents have money to send their kids to school. They can get an education, they can do that. When I do a bad job with marketing, people get laid off, they lose their jobs, their mortgages, their car payments are all in jeopardy. So what we do is far bigger than what you described. And I've tried to keep that in the back of my mind we have a role to play on the livelihoods of those we serve. And that's just something we try to keep top of mind because it is far more than just a campaign on a dashboard with a throughput with a conversion rate. It's it's a lot bigger than that. It's more human.

SPEAKER_01 23:02

Dad started the agency. So what what year did he start the firm? 2003. And then tell us about that process of you coming into the business and then the transition to the role you're in today.

SPEAKER_02 23:15

Yeah, so I was working with Zeke at Main Street, and Main Street was a special, special time in my life. So I joined, I was probably 20th employee in the company. And Main Street, right when I got there, just went on a rocket ship. They uh went through a uh they had a deal with a really big senior healthcare REIT. And this REIT acquired a big chunk of our legacy portfolio and agreed to do a development pipeline of new luxury nursing homes, which was Main Street's model. And we really kind of took off um like a rocket. But, you know, at that time, I think what we discovered is our model wasn't um wrong. It was just a little aggressive and it was a little early. So, you know, um what's really exciting is the Main Street story isn't quite over yet. Um, you know, Zeke has um found a really cool way of reviving that mission and vision, which, you know, is is a neat thing to see. But, you know, it it had it went through a tough time like some businesses do. And, you know, through that process, just decided, hey, this is this run we've had at Main Street is now's a good time to, you know, think about something different. And this was also at the time when JDA was really starting to grow. And keep in mind this sort of like sensitivity to me wanting to join the family business. And you know, my dad had talked to me, we had just signed Museum of the Bible, and that signing has been a pivotal moment in the agency's history. It really catapulted us to a lot of national profile when we ran that campaign and we were able to tell the market that you know we were the agency of record for that, it changed everything for us. We became a magnet for a lot of you know people who shared those values and it it just completely changed the game for us. And from that point all the way up until now, you know, it's been a big reason why we've grown so rapidly. So at that time, uh my dad had said, Hey, if there was ever a time for you to do this, uh now's the time. And I was like, No, I'm not. Like, I don't want this perception around my career. Uh, so sorry, like I'm I'm just not gonna do it. But a really dear friend of mine was over at my house and I was explaining to him this uh dynamic. And I was like, I just I'm not gonna do it. And he goes, Okay, so let me get this straight. You're not gonna do this because you don't want this label. And I was like, Yeah, that's that's exactly right. He goes, Okay, well, anyone who knows you know that knows that that's not true. And anyone who doesn't know you, why do you care? And you want to talk about feeling about that big. I just was like, you know what, this is a lot of pride and it's a lot of ego and it's a lot of concern about people who don't even know me. And it was in that moment where I went to my dad and said, Okay, look, I'm gonna do this, but I don't want any equity, I don't want any special treatment, I want to help you finish strong. Whether that's, you know, 10 months, 10 years, 20 years, whatever it is, I want to help you finish strong. And that's been since 2017. So we're coming up on year 10 next year uh of doing this, which is really exciting. So it's been a fun ride. Um, I was in different parts of the business for the first seven years, and I've been leading JDA as CEO for the last three. So it's been been a wild ride.

SPEAKER_01 26:49

Gosh, what a you sure got handed a silver spoon in that whole deal, didn't you?

SPEAKER_02 26:54

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_01 26:56

So 10 years of a silver spoon plus the years you had beforehand. So I'm I'm grateful for your friend that talked some sense into you.

Reverence For Work And Real-World Impact

SPEAKER_02 27:04

Yeah, no, it was good. It and again, it's just recognizing too where that was coming from and just a lot of pride and ego, and just saying, hey, you know, we don't choose uh some of these things. And um, I think there's always someone in someone's career who's a big advocate for them. Mine happened to, you know, for the second half of my career to be my dad. And um, I know of a lot of people who have had big breaks because of one person who believed in them. Um you know, for me, uh ad like Chester and Zeke Turner hired a 25-year-old to run marketing for a$300 million healthcare real estate company when I had no business having that job. I didn't. And um, they saw something in me that I didn't see in myself yet. And for that, I'm always gonna be grateful. And I think it's just a matter of whether it's family or someone in your network, someone is gonna see something in you, and you got to take full advantage of those opportunities. And luckily for me, the Lord has put the right people in my life at certain times uh to just pull that out of me. Um, my first boss at the agency in Fort Wayne, uh, his name's Mike Motherwell, he had a lot of patience with me. Some of the dumb things I surely did or emailed or said, he just was super gracious with me. And that's an individual. I would have never started intersection without some tutelage for Mike. So it's just whoever decides they're gonna invest in you, take full advantage of it, whether it's family or not.

SPEAKER_01 28:30

How many times in the last 10 years since you've been at JDA have you been able to pay that favor forward to a early career person who had more talent than they even realized they had?

SPEAKER_02 28:40

Yeah, I I hope, I hope I'm good about doing that. I I think leading a team, it's easy to find people who have really good temperament and a really good skill set. But the temperament part is the one that we talk a lot about. I think you can develop a hard skill with repetition. And over time, you can't teach hard work. You can't teach some of these things that you just see things in people. And we really try to celebrate those things. Uh, people who, like I said, have good temperament, have a good attitude, uh, believe in in what we're doing. Those are the people where it's like, let's really invest heavily in that and then bring the hard skill expertise around them um to double down on the soft skills.

SPEAKER_00 29:22

Yeah. Todd, Todd asked a question about the advice your dad gave you um early when you were starting your own deal. Um, I wanted to talk about you're in a uh a special season of your life uh over the last 10 years where you've been able to do professional and personal life alongside your dad. Um I had a similar experience for about 15 years where you know every day we were coming in the office and I got to spend a lot of time and and on, you know, for for me that season is mostly over, at least professionally. But that was that was so special um while I was while I was in it and obviously reflecting, looking back. What are some things that have grown to be special to you in this season with your dad? And what are some things that you've picked up in the last decade um from doing from walking alongside him professionally?

Joining The Family Firm And Letting Go Of Ego

SPEAKER_02 30:23

Yeah, it's interesting because we have a really good work relationship and we also have a friendship. And I think how those have uh sort of intermingled has been interesting. I think honestly, the the hardest thing about it, and it's something I'm wrestling with being a dad, is when you're with someone that frequently, you just see the areas where they're human. And growing up with an entrepreneurial father of a successful company, you know, elder in the church and this stuff, like there's this perception of this dude is bulletproof. And then, you know, this isn't a knock on him, but then you just get up close and personal, it's just like, why on earth would you say or do that? Uh and you know, I think just like having grace and understanding like this guy is a human being, and even though all my life I had him on this pedestal, just understanding that he's human and he needs and deserves grace as much as I do has been a pretty interesting thing to navigate, right? But we really enjoy working with each other. It's it's fun to just learn from him and then say, okay, there are things that he does that I'm going to repeat, and then there are things that I'm gonna do differently for this season of the agency, or just you know, little things of like the way we sell or or things like that. So it's been a really fun thing. But the the best thing that I've learned from him is going deep in relationships. And, you know, we talked about these partners of ours who have been around for the life of the agency. It's because it's not a transaction. And the best thing I learned from him is get on the plane, get in the car, pick up the phone and call. Don't text, don't email, talk to them, be invested, be where they are. And that is undefeated, especially in an age where this digital world is only gonna accelerate. Like the eyeball to eyeball human connection is undefeated. And every time we show up in that way, the return on impact is critical. So that's something I've I've learned, and I'm I'm never gonna um forget that for sure.

SPEAKER_00 32:43

Yeah. You uh you've mentioned a couple times the word friendship. You talked about it with about your dad. You also talked about it in the accountability moment of why maybe you're not partnering up with your dad. Um are friendships something that you have been intentional about? Because obviously uh you've built it with at least those individuals, and you've built a powerful enough friendship where you're willing to have vulnerable conversations with somebody about your about your family, about a family business, right? Uh so talk a little bit about like your approach to friendship and and how you navigate that.

SPEAKER_02 33:25

So I don't know if you're an Enneagram guy, but I am a seven, and I can tell me you are a seven-wing seven. So um don't tempt me with a good time because I will be there. And I love my wife. Um, she has to deal with a lot of input into the funnel, and I get a lot through the funnel, uh, a lot of yeses, uh, the occasional no, but I get a lot of yeses. But you know, look, I I for me, I enjoy having fun with people. I'm not quite as much of an extrovert as people think. I really kind of like it to be with people who I don't have to feel on uh with, but you know, that circle just has grown uh over time. And you know, there's obviously a core group of you know friends who I'm very, very close with who I would, you know, do anything for. But then as you network with people and you do business with people, you get these rings um out and you want to invest in those too. Like I ride bikes with a group of guys at six in the morning on Fridays because I love them. And while I don't get to spend as much uh quantity of time with them, that is a time where it's like, look, this is quality time for us, and I want our friendships to continue on. And this is the way that that has to work. So I think honestly, it's just one of those things of I think it's just fun to do life with people that you love. And it's it's important to, I mean, I think some people try to separate business and friendship and and those sort of things. I've been a little bit more of a blurry line on that. Of if someone is in my orbit with business, I believe enough in what we do that I'm willing to say, look, I think this is gonna go really well. Even if it doesn't, we're gonna give you everything we got. And we can at least shake hands at the end of it and continue it or say, hey, this wasn't a perfect fit, and then just live with that sort of abundance mindset as opposed to, well, your work, your friend, your church, your this. It's like, no, like let's just do do life together and and you know, assume the best.

SPEAKER_00 35:34

That's good. That's good stuff. Um, you talked about being face-to-face, being undefeated. How how does that play out in just leading a business and leading teams? And, you know, obviously there's a you know, the whole work from home thing and that sort of thing. How do how do you navigate that with knowing that face-to-face is is undefeated?

SPEAKER_02 35:57

Yeah. So we decided we were gonna do Monday, Tuesday, Thursday mandatory in the office. That's been really effective for us. We have a member of our advisory board who said, uh, show me a team who doesn't practice together that's gonna go out on game day and win. And we've taken that to heart. I think the being in person builds trust, uh, it builds culture. Especially in our line of work where collaboration matters a lot. We need to be together. And don't get me wrong, like we have web developers who need to be plugged in and jamming out code, and that's great. There are times where I probably ought to be really knee deep in an Excel spreadsheet. And if I do that from home versus my office, that's not the end of the world. But we do really value that in-person time uh where we can break bread together at lunch every Tuesday and we can have intensives together where we block a half or a whole day to focus on one project as a large team. Those things we really value. And we just don't believe that Zoom can replicate it. And say, look, you know, if there's a period of time throughout the week where it makes some more sense to do this remote, fine. Um, we we have enough trust built up to where that's not a you know a deal breaker. But we really do value those things a lot. And I think with clients too, not only investing in the relationship, but also you just feel and sense things differently when you're live versus um over Zoom. And I can't tell you the number of times where we just start talking organically about something and it leads us to a new opportunity. And some of that stuff just over Zoom, it just tends to be more transactional than relational. And we don't want to give that up, and we won't. And we don't have to travel a ton, but we do want to make them count when we do.

Paying It Forward And Hiring For Temperament

SPEAKER_01 38:02

You mentioned uh breaking bread together, having lunch, getting together. I think about the work you guys do is kind of like a band writing a song. You kind of know where you need to go. You've got the different players, you got the drummer, you got the lead guitarist, you got the singer, you've got all those listed as practice areas on your website. That's that's what a band has, is a practice area. Um when when you write a song, I don't write songs, but I can imagine I've watched enough videos about it. It's a process, it's it's discovery. When you guys get together and talk about different customers, different projects, is it hard to toggle or pivot between projects? Or is that where maybe some of the creativity comes and you sort of get the wheel going and you start thinking, well, wait a minute, that worked for them. Could we twist it around and use the same methodology and could it work for client B? Does that kind of stuff happen, or is it a bit more isolated when you're writing your songs, if you will?

SPEAKER_02 38:58

I think it's both. I think when we are in the midst of engaging with a new partner, there are things that will be said in the lead up where it's like, that sounds a lot like big life, or that sounds a lot like Securitas, or hey, that sounds a lot like what we just did with Jonathan Isaac. And the that experience, especially when you look at the fact that we've been doing this for 22 years, you can really kind of lean on some of those things in that experience, and then go and look at how did that project play out? Was it a win? Would have we done something differently? So I think that matters a lot. But then the other thing, Todd, is we also try to say what is the growth goal? Who is the audience? What is a unique differentiation piece that we can leverage? Um, you know, what is the competitive landscape? How do we need to navigate that in relationship to those three things? And then just be really bold and Moving people to action. I think agencies, especially in the world of AI, we get hired for creative brilliance. I don't care if that's through web or digital or creative or brand or earned or paid or owned, no matter what it is, agencies get hired for creative brilliance. Now, look, we do production work for our clients. That's why we're retained. But the main reason people partner with us is they need someone to be creatively brilliant for them. And we're not perfect, but we do want to shoot for the stars and kind of live into that third core value of being courageously creative, not just within the creative practice, but across all of them. So I do think it's that of yes, the partner is asking for this, and we need to deliver on that. But then we can also say, and what if we also do this? And then, you know, if the resources are available or the opportunity is data-driven enough, then we get to shoot those shots too. So it's a it's all three of those legacy, big thinking, um, meeting the needs that the client has expressed. That tapestry altogether usually ends up being the song to complete the analogy.

SPEAKER_01 41:10

So marketing and all the things that you do, or and even peer companies that you do, we do that for businesses, we do that for companies. We've seen a lot of this in the last maybe 10 or 15 years of doing it for athletes, for musicians, you know, protecting their brand. Are there other categories of individuals that you or other uh marketing firms do for just individuals? So, do you see CEOs hiring marketing and branding just for them, not their business, but because today they're the CEO of this company, but they need to be positioned and prepared to be picked off and hired away into a CEO of a bigger company. Do you see that? And what does that look like in today's environment?

Friendship, Networks, And Boundaries

SPEAKER_02 41:53

I think you are seeing that a little bit more, where a lot of CEOs and business leaders are really intentional about their own personal brand. And there is a balance to strike between I have a brand, think LinkedIn, right? There, we we can all think of certain individuals who have a really intentional LinkedIn presence and there's thought leadership there. And a lot of that fuels the leadership of the organization they're at. But to your point, it's also a good platform to say when I'm ready to pivot and do something different, I'm going to enjoy the relationships and the networks and the things like that, to where when I meet someone for breakfast, they're going to be able to say, I remember that post you made or that podcast you were on, or your point of view on this. And all of a sudden, it just kind of creates a bridge into the possibility to do something new. So we do see that a lot. I think, especially with social media, there's a big push to say, what does thought leadership and content look like for my point of view on X, Y, and Z? We also do a lot of PR for thought leaders. So we are retained by a number of, you know, pastors, community leaders, thought leaders to make sure that their point of view after a natural disaster is picked up on the news. We had the benefit of representing the hostage families of Hamas. So anytime you saw a news article on the family members of those hostages, CNN, Fox, NBC, whoever it was, it was getting their voice out there so that the media cycle didn't just roll through it and forget about it. So you talk about, you know, something to wake up to in the morning, getting to represent those families. And now the fact that they're home, incredible. And it's all because we have a really, really good PR team who knows how to get even the smallest of brands in the national spotlight.

SPEAKER_00 44:03

That's unbelievable. Um, so pivot a little bit. Um, you guys endeavored into a partnership uh for an entrepreneurship leadership summit in Indy with uh the rally event uh prolific had their gross summit. Um, how did that come to be? And um, you know, what was your what's your takeaway as you guys uh did that this this past fall? Yeah.

In-Person Culture And Hybrid Rhythm

SPEAKER_02 44:31

Uh first events are hard. So events are tough. Um, we got really lucky. Uh we have had the benefit of representing a lot of organizations that the Greens support, mainly Museum of the Bible and and a few others. So getting David uh to come and speak was a huge get. We happen to represent Patrick Lincioni, he agreed to come. We represent Jonathan Isaac, who plays Power Forward for the Orlando Magic, he agreed to come. So we out of the gate had a really good speaker lineup, kind of just built into our client base, which was a huge benefit. We place a lot of media with Fox News and Fox Business. So we're uh were able to partner with them to say what might it look like for you to broadcast live from Indianapolis for a day. And they agreed to do that. So a lot of these were just sort of networking relational opportunities to bring one thing together. And honestly, for us, the the main driver was we want people to understand that we want to be about growth, right? Whether it's growing your revenue, growing your impact, growing the relevancy of your brand. That's the position that we want people to have of us in the marketplace. So for us, it was certainly a more of a thought leadership exercise. The interesting thing that happened though is our event was going to be just a CEO-only, sort of exclusive by invite event. And somehow, um, Toe Fat Um Elevate found out, you know, what we're up to and was like, hey, that sounds really cool. And, you know, offered to say, hey, why don't you fold your event into ours and take over the main stage at Rally on day one? And for us, it's like, great, why not? Like, why not do something together as opposed to separate? So it was cool. Um, more people got to got to interact with the the speakers and the content, and Rally enjoyed a national presence um, you know, through the Fox Business Partnership and had really good content uh on the main stage for the entire first day. So you talk about, you know, a perfect match. And frankly, like innovation and growth, they go hand in hand. So we were really excited to do it, and it, you know, it went pretty well for coming together um, you know, pretty late in the game. So their their group is great over there, and we we had a uh a good time doing that with them.

SPEAKER_00 47:01

Tell you that story is Indy doing what Indy does so well is hey, we got something here and we got something here, let's do it together and just knock it out of the park. Um, so that that is that is awesome. But that's exactly what I think of as like that's such an Indiana, Indianapolis thing right there.

SPEAKER_02 47:24

Oh, yeah. The thing I love about Indy, it's a two-call town. If you need to talk to someone in Indianapolis or in Indiana, you're probably two phone calls away. And that's the one of the coolest things about Indy. And it's like, yeah, it's also like the 13th or 14th biggest market in the entire country. Yeah, um, I I've heard it from several people. They talk about Indianapolis is this perfect uh combination of access and opportunity. So if you want opportunity, like I need to get lunch with the mayor of Topeka, Kansas, you can probably get that meeting pretty easily, right? The downside with that is there's not as much access to big, audacious, cool things that change the world. Whereas you can go to Silicon Valley and have all the opportunity you want with no access. You're not getting a coffee with Mark Zuckerberg, right?

SPEAKER_03 48:15

Right.

SPEAKER_02 48:15

Indianapolis is both of those things all at once. And I think that makes this place really special. Is there are big things going on here and you can get to people because I do think there's you know, call it a lack of pretentiousness, call it who's your hospitality, call it what you will, but there are big things happening, and there's also access to to join in when it makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 48:37

Yeah. I also think it goes back to what you were talking about with the growth in your career of there's just a business community that look like identifies when special people and just deeply desires to help them out. Um, and I and you know, I think that probably isn't even contained to that. I think in general, our community loves helping helping people get from where they are to where to where they want to be for sure.

SPEAKER_02 49:06

Yeah, yeah, no question.

SPEAKER_00 49:08

Um, so this has gone really fast. So we've gotten to the end of our episode, and uh we have two questions that we ask our guests. So I'll I'll take the first one. Uh, what is a risk that you have taken that's changed your life?

Creativity As A Team Sport

SPEAKER_02 49:24

Definitely intersection, starting that at the ripe age of 23 or 24. We decided that we were going to start an agency in Traver City, Michigan, and we did it. Um, like I said, we got a lot of help, a lot of advice, um, and things like that, you know, from my dad and things of that nature. But we made$1,052 and 38 cents at the end of 2011. Um I mean, and and you know, congratulations. Yeah, it was it was cool, right? And we're like, holy cow, we you know, this this is great. But then, you know, the the next two years, like the agency grew a lot, and that was a fun thing to do with two dear friends, but just to understand what it means to be an owner and have that pressure and responsibility and things of that nature, I'll never forget it. I will always be a different employee because of that. And just in terms of being honoring of someone who had the guts to start something. They at the end of the day are the ones responsible for the payroll and for the benefits and for all this stuff. And I think it's so easy to sort of sit back and complain and say, well, I deserve this and I deserve that. And in some ways, it's almost kind of like, well, then then go do your own thing if it if it's that easy. Otherwise, it's almost kind of like, how can I come alongside and support this individual who has put it all on the line and help grow it and grow it so that everybody wins a little bit. So I think no matter where you come from, whether you're the one starting it, having reverence for founders, but even being whether you're in leadership or just starting out saying, I want to help grow this thing um for my own livelihood, but also for the livelihood of the organization. So certainly starting intersection, being able to sell that um was to a great team was awesome, um, having that sort of exit. But that whole process was, you know, really great.

SPEAKER_00 51:29

Overhead and payroll obligations are a real thing.

SPEAKER_02 51:33

Yeah. And believe it or not, um, you know, it takes a lot of work to satisfy those every two weeks. It just never stops. And then all the other stuff too, you know, benefits and this and that. It it all has to be met with um, you know, more partnerships and more revenue, and it never stops. It's the one thing that doesn't ever slow down.

SPEAKER_01 51:54

That's right. Sales doesn't solve everything, but it solves many things. Second and final question, Chance, what is left yet unfinished that you have the resolve to complete?

SPEAKER_02 52:06

I really want JDA to eventually be known as one of the best independent agencies in the country. And I especially want that to be well known with people who um have purpose-driven values, whose faith dictates a lot of their decision making, whether that's in the for-profit world, the nonprofit world, secular, faith-oriented, doesn't matter. I I want that for JDA, and we have a really extraordinary leadership team right now. All of our practice leaders are phenomenal. And I just want us to continue to represent great organizations who are changing the game because we have the team right now, and what a blessing it is for me to get a um serve them each day. You know, when when we come up against tough times and you know, things like that, anytime we have a leadership meeting, I leave ready to just run through a brick wall for them and on behalf of our brand. And that's a special thing that I've had to pinch myself on lately, is especially when times are tough, knowing that there's a team who's capable and ready to go. It's it's a fun feeling. So I want us to continue to go upstream and you know enjoy that reputation, not for our own glory, uh, but for those who want to change the world. You have a partner who can help you get there, who's gonna have your mission in their bones and passionately, optimistically share it with as many people in your audience group as possible.

SPEAKER_00 53:42

You know, that's interesting. You mentioned about the high performers on your leadership team. That's a whole different stewardship in and of itself of like, you know, God has given us an opportunity for all these people to be on our team. And I have to actually steward high-level talent to achieve what their calling is, which that's a that's a whole that's a whole nother that's a whole nother game.

SPEAKER_02 54:08

But it is. No, it is. And even you sharing that, I'm like, I need to be doing more of that. It was interesting when I slid into this role at the beginning of 2023. I was shocked at how little they needed me to sub into the game and make the pitch or talk to the client. It was a little bit more like, hey, let us let us cook over here. So leading leaders as opposed to like being on the front lines, like, don't get me wrong, I love being subbed into the game and getting through the client interaction, things like that. But it's really not as much what's required of me. I need to reinforce our culture, I need to drive new opportunities, and I need to lead our leaders really well. And the first six or nine months, I'd say, of my time, that was just something that I had to discover for myself. Uh, didn't didn't have that one thought through when I when I first started doing this.

SPEAKER_00 55:10

Oh, yeah. Always something to learn.

SPEAKER_02 55:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 55:13

Well, chance, uh, thanks for joining us today. Uh, and thanks uh to our listeners for uh uh joining us for another episode of Risk and Resolve. We'll catch you next time.